While I was stuck in traffic post-game that was so bad I got out of my car and argued with two cops about the situation...remarkably not going to jail and actually getting them to more or less do what I wanted...I was partially listening to the 750 am post-game show.
During the show, Dantzler and Mike Cavan were talking about our talent level. It sounded like they were pushing the theory that it's not the coaching. Or maybe they were basically just saying that all our "Top 10 recruiting classes" were overblown. Either way, it sounds like we have huge talent problems per their conversation.
Dantzler's comment was that we're currently ranked 8th nationally by one recruiting service, but that's still only 5th in the SEC in recruiting. His shockingly lucid point being, that talent rankings are all relative.
We'll ignore the fact that 2 of the past 5 seasons, we finished higher in the Rivals recruiting rankings than the Gators. And just let Jeff's point stand on it's own for a minute. From there, I'll just agree the rankings are all relative. Moving on...
I don't care what we are ranked by Rivals, Scout or anyone else. I simply want us in the same living rooms as our rivals/peers, and I want us protecting our home state's top talent as much as possible. I figure if we're recruiting the same guys as UF, UT, Bama, LSU, and/or Miami, then we're usually recruiting the right guys.
With the exception of Cox and Gray, most of our current peers and measuring stick programs wanted most of our starters on offense and defense. Most of the elite programs can be wrong about a few players. But everyone can't be wrong about all our players.
I am not saying that this roster is as talented as the 2002 unit. There are typically less than two teams per year in all of college football that are as loaded on both sides of the ball as that group.
Nor am I saying that our talent is where it needs to be. At QB, RB and DE, we had multple recruiting whiffs that will only sort themselves out with time. As the better players aren't so darn raw or young.
But this roster ain't chopped liver either. We are most certainly more talented top to bottom than Oklahoma State and Tennessee. As well as Auburn, Kentucky and Georgia Tech.
QB is it's own fiasco right now. And that's not a trivial matter. But we're better than our record would suggest.
Or said more briefly -- we ain't the best 4-4 team in America, but we are damn sure the most talented one. And there's no trophy for that.
PWD
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34 comments:
Even if we are not as talented as most of us think.....what is 100% clear, and cannot be argued against in any fashion, is that our coaches are not getting the most out of the talent that we DO have. Guys are playing slow and tentative instead of fast and decisive. I'm ok with guys being less talented, as long as we're maximizing what talent they have. That is not happening, which totally undercuts using "lack of talent" as a defense of the coaching staff. You should always be able to get the most out of your available talent as a coach, and that is not being done, plain and simple.
If you ask me, and I'll note that you didn't, a lack of talent (if it exists at all) IS a coaching issue.
The little part of this my friend Jeff isn't putting together is that the coaches are responsible for evaluating high school players and recruiting them to Georgia. So basically, he's saying our coaches can't do that.
Coaching problem.
But, really, I agree with Regular Guy above. Even if we're not as talented, we're not well-coached.
We have plenty of physically gifted players, but they are either mental midgets or our coaches simply cannot get through to them.
I think that the greatest indictment on Martinez is the deficiency of the DB's. Make no mistake, CWM WAS a great position coach.
Reshad Jones is as physically gifted as anyone in the SEC. But, he is either mentally incapable of understanding what to do, or CWM simply is not able to deliver the proper information.
I tend to lean toward the latter, because Bryan Evans, jeez, what can you say about him, and Prince Miller has regressed tremendously.
It was like clockwork with Willie that when DB's reached their 3rd year under him, they took off. We have not seen that the last couple of years.
Another thing about the talent deficit is the coaches' inability to put guys in the right position. Kiante Tripp is another guy, physically, he is off the charts, but the coaches have basically blown his career by moving him around the last 3 years.
Richard Samuel has clearly never been an SEC RB, yet we burned a redshirt for him, at 17 years old, on the offensive side of the ball. Now he will be going into his 3rd season in the program and will be switching positions.
Why is Logan Gray still at QB? The coaches have made it clear that Logan will never be QB at UGA by putting him on KO and PR teams. Yet, he is still taking practice reps from Aaron Murray.
Our coaches are lazy. They pay no attention to detail and do not look toward the future with the decisions they make today. We need an NFL DC in here that will be detail oriented and will be at his office 24/7.
Dantzler is a huge Martinez supporter, and probably the last one on the planet.
Is our talent on "D" worse than Arkansas' or Miss State's? Because they sure did a better job stopping Florida than we did.
Yes yes yes, completely agree with this post, great job pwd..
It also reminds me of another genious saying the same thing basically in the comments on a different post..no sarcasm here.. I really do agree with ur post.. And my comments yesterday about the lack of developing talent
I am no football expert but I am a darn good cook and what I see at Georgia is the equivalent of taking filet mignon and lobster tail (great ingredients) and turning it into dog food (no pun intended. It is time to find more talented cooks. The chef appears to be OK but the support staff (assistant coaches) have lost the recipes to create decent meals (wins). Georgiawineguy
I don't want to restate what's been said above, but, it's what I have to do.
We aren't utilizing the talent we have to the maximum possible effect. We aren't placing our offensive and defensive weapons into situations where they can make the greatest impact.
Case in point - we have on the roster A.J. Green, arguably the most talented receiver to hit the SEC in years, Orson Charles, billed as god's gift to the Tight End position, and a host of other highly-touted WR prospects, including Rantavious Wooten, Marlon Brown, Tavarres King, and Israel Troupe. We've shown all year long that we can't run the ball to save our lives, but we can keep Joe Cox upright all day long (6 sacks all year coming into the UF game).
Now, with that said, why haven't we switched the system around to more effectively utilize the talent we have, rather than try to force kids into a system that isn't going to maximize their talents?
I stayed up Saturday night and watched the Oregon/USC game, hoping to see what a competent offense and defense looked like. Oregon's offense is what I wish ours ran like. Lots of 3 and 4 WR sets, lots of shotgun, and lots of delayed runs set up by downfield passing routes. Why we don't send Orson Charles down the seam where he can be matched up against a slower linebacker, or smaller safety, all day long, I'll not know. Same thing with running A.J. out of the slot and across the middle until the other team has to do something to stop it.
Defensively, we're just too vanilla. Van Gorder's defenses may not have always been the most talented, but they were always effective, because he changed up the look the other team got so frequently, they couldn't get into a rhythm. CWM isn't the same level of defensive mind that CVG was/is.
After watching the game this weekend I have finally put my finger on what is wrong with Martinez's defense. He runs a reaction based defense. Meaning our guys are instructed to react to what the other guy is doing. This is fine when you have all world defenders who make plays. Our defense only has a few of those guys so what you wind up with is an indecisive defense that tries to react to what the other guy is doing after the fact. The problem with that is by the time you adjust you are already 14-20 points behind against a good offense. We do not force anyone to do anything on defense. We let them do what they want and then try to stop it. It is inexcusable that Florida ran the same play UT did against us with the exact same result. To be fair though I no longer blame Evans or Jones. Its obvious they are taught to react to what they see. Rather than sticking with a receiver they react to ball fakes, because that is what they are told to do.
The years that we are the worst are the years that we don't have a quarterback ready (see Joe T and Joe C). It would be to our greatest benefit to decide which of the three remaining will be our starter next year and begin to PLAY HIM NOW! Thanks for your awesome work. www.wedgeorgia.com
darth,
I think, by nature, defenses are supposed to react to the offense. Too hard to guess what the offense is going to do. Having said that, I do agree that our defense is capable of making the offense react to what our defense is doing. More snap judgements = more mistakes.
We are not creating anything defensively.
Talent has nothing to do with a team that does not show any progress from Week 1 til Week 9. Good coaching will make any player look better with time.
Turnovers; started bad still bad.
Penalties; started bad still bad.
Secondary; started bad still bad.
Pass rush; started bad still bad.
QB play; started bad still bad.
I could go on you know.
You say save Cox and Gray, but Gray was heavily courted by the gators and wanted badly by them.
We've just chosen not to do anything with him since he got here.
I listened to the Bulldog Brunch on Sunday morning. That was painful. All the hosts banged on was recruiting and would not say a word about coaching shortcomings. Well the coaches recruit the players and I still think we have a nice level of talent on this team. From a playmaking standpoint what team wouldn't want Green, Boykin, Branden Smith, O. Charles, Currin, Jones etc. Could you imagine what Florida might get out of those guys??? Or any other coaching staff that is capable of motivation. Our coaches are stubborn to a fault and at times seem like the treat it like HS football by letting a senior play when they are terrible while a younger player with potential sits. That is something I don't get. If you are going to get beat, play the kids.
I think Ealey is getting better with every game. Remember we was playing Single A ball a year ago.
I hope the younger players get at least 3/4 of the snaps vs. Tenn. Tech.
I think much of what we're seeing is what happens when a coaching has lost the team. I don't think these coaches all of a sudden became incompetent. But what they're doing is not working. I don't think the players suddenly lost all their talent. But what happened to their belief and motivation? I doubt the players trust in their coaches. I doubt that the coaches have confidence in their players. Sounds simplistic, but that's at the heart of it, as far as I'm concerned.
Sorry Paul. But I don't know why some people insist on putting so much faith into recruiting rankings. It's VERY clear to me that we're not as talented as LSU or Florida. And sorry again, but I think Oklahoma St. is closer to us than you think.
This isn't to excuse the coaching, or lack thereof. We've been a poorly coached team for a year and a half now. Or maybe its just that some old nagging problems that we ignored when things were pretty good have all of the sudden gotten worse? I'm speaking of lack of discipline and a consistently inconsistent lack of preparedness and motivation.
This coaching staff has been hamstrung by Rodney Garner ever since CMR chose him over BVG. Garner's good, but perhaps his reputation has gone to his head and he's no longer working as hard to identify the players that we NEED. If our recruiting is so good then why do we keep missing on the Ronnie Browns, the Brinkleys, the Norwoods, the Berrys? How many ALL SEC type impact players from this state do we see on other SEC teams' rosters? Sorry, but our recruiting is way, way overated. And it's partially because of how that whole racket works.
Why are we always so tired looking? What ever happened to Van Halanger and his mat drills? Kevin Butler has hinted several times that one area that he feels the coaching staff is not developing players is physically. Our OL's physical conditioning is all relative too. Might be enough to push you and I around. But they aren't strong enough to push LSU or Florida around. Hell, they aren't physically strong enough to push Tennessee around.
Not happy with this program right now. It used to be on good footing. And then people started believing their own press and started getting just a little too comfy in their job security.
I agree, it's not a talent problem. When you're getting players that are wanted by schools like Notre Dame, Florida, Tennessee, Alabama, Virginia Tech, USC, Michigan, Texas, West Virginia..you're getting the right guys.
The coaches are NOT doing the right things. They are not inspiring, motivating or conditioning them enough.
If we don't have a good game plan...it's on the coaches
If the players aren’t executing properly ...it's on the coaches
If we don't have the right TALENT...it's on the coaches.
This is their job. To find the right players, to work your game play to utilize their skills, and to teach them how to win at the highest level.
Rarely is a player such a lost cause, maybe Jasper Sanks, that he can't be used to the benefit of the team.\ It's on the coaches.
Darth and hellisorange,
The defense's base is a cover 2, which is by nature a reactionary shut-down defense, as opposed to one that attacks the offense and disrupts what it is doing (an inherently riskier proposition).
The reason this same defense was more effective in 2007 (I'm assuming we played it then--I think we did) was because of the pass-rushing of the front line. That aspect of the cover 2 is crucial; your front line must be good enough to get in the backfield so the offense cannot spend all day finding seams. The fact that they CAN do this to us is why the TE is always used do effectively...and why teams play play-action and run misdirection so much, to hold the OL in place.
You'll recall that the 2007 team's defense was improved at later in the year by Marcus Howard's emergence. We haven't had a really good pass-rusher on the line since then.
That all said, I didn't look at this closely but I would bet we were in Cover 0, mimicking MIss State, when Tebow ran down the middle of the field untouched. Which is exactly what will happen with that more attacking defense if your blitzing safety doesn't get in the backfield fast enough.
Who wants to bet that Florida did a little game-planning about playing the cover 0 after the MSU game? Ya think????
Logan Gray might have flourished in a Florida spread style offense. However, his talents do not appear to be suited to a play action, drop back pass attack that UGA runs. I say "do not appear" because he has never really been given a chance.
Putting him in from own 5 yard line against one of the best defenses in the country is not exactly a situation in which he can thrive.
This is not to say Gray should start the rest of the year. If he could not beat out Cox, then he will merely be a footnote in UGA recruiting history as the highest recruiter fair catch punt returner in NCAA history.
From watching games the past two years it appears that UGA has a lack of fundamentals especially on defense.
First example was last year against Ga. Tech. There were multiple drives that were extended by players running and hitting a ball carrier vs. wrapping them up and tackling or driving them out of bounds. The same thing is happening this year as well, and it is all on coaching to have either not pointed it out and corrected it or not notice it.
Coaching is bad, player evaluation is ok and player development is absent.
Coaching: A good DC would look at slow LB's (outside Rennie), small DE's and confused safeties and realize that a standard 4-3 is not going to work. Some smoke and mirrors are needed when your talent is down ala Joe Lee Dunn. I've not seen any.
Evaluation: We burned a scholly on a kicker w/out seeing him, an LB that was not offered by peer schools & we have 4 QB's, 1 of whom looks like Wes Welker and 2 that were not highly sought after. We are effectively competing with an 80 man roster against teams w/ 85. This "early recruiting" trend is obviously mis-evaluating players that continue to develop over their SR yr.
Development: Why was Samuels played last yr? We had a 1,000 yard back and 3 above avg Fullbacks that could effectively spell KM (especially Chapas). No need to use a 17yr old that craves contact and struggles to see the field. Gray? After he failed to beef up during his RS year, why not make him a slot receiver? Its painfully obvious that his height and motion don't work as a drop-back passer. He's got quicks, he's just at the wrong position.
We had a run of either recruiting misses or lazy recruiting b/c our older guys (especially on D) aren't up to Donnan/early Richt calibur.
Discipline: However many up downs, suicides or okie hops these guys do on Monday, it aint enough. If they have to waste a whole practice on punitive calisthenics until they puke, so be it. Players have to learn to control the agression. I continue to be disgusted by the lack of control (especially of the personal nature). This has always been the hallmark of FSU under BB, and I really thought CMR was different. 9 yrs says he's not.
I'm excited by Charles, Rambo, the Brandon's, etc., but they're young and make young mistakes (OC struggles to block, makes false starts, BB had the face mask and has been burned, Ealey struggles in blocking-see the interception at midfield)
It's like clockwork this season on how bad the defensive coaching is:
The announcers even pointed out that on Florida's 1st two TD drives they were running different plays than the past 2-3 weeks.
Do something different and Willie's outcoached, sadly.
Best 4-4 team right behind the mighty TENNESSEE VOLUNTEERS. Two programs going in opposite directions. UGA is right at home...3rd best team in the SEC East.
Art Vandelay
Sam,
The coaches are stubborn mules. Remember how long JTIII had the starting job? We didn't bench him until AFTER the Tennessee game that year. How does Bryan Evans continue to start or even sniff the field? Our guys do things that would get you benched in H.S. or little league. All I see our coaches do is shrug their shoulders.
I have to agree. While the quarterback situation does hurt the defense should not be this bad. Ever. Our players have poor fundamentals and frequently look confused. That goes back to coaching and scheme. Our QB situation isn't good but if Joe played for Alabama he'd be acceptable. 37+ in 8 out 14 games is past ridiculous. This team has plenty of talent. The buck has to stop with the coaches. The Willie Martinez experiment should have been over after last year.
We had two weeks to prepare for uf, to watch tenn, msu, lsu, and ark film and this was what we got, it's coaching plain and simple.
Dantzler is a sunshine pumper of the worst kind.
His nose so far up Evans' and Claude Felton's @$$, that he is absolutely unlistenable on the post game show.
Do they dress him up in cheerleader garb to do the show?
I wonder what color panties he is wearing?
The talent is there to be competitive in this league.
This is a discipline issue, plain and simple.
Coach Richt is running a country club and is not holding his staff or his players accountable for their lack of performance.
There is a sense of entitlement throughout and it makes us easy prey for opponents who are focused and committed.
Until recently, no one feared for their job or their playing time.
It is too late to do anything but clean house.
How would this sound ?
"Today Willie Martinez has resigned from the UGA coaching staff. I have immediately filled the position with Rodney Garner."
Word is that CWM does not strike fear in the defensive players. Brian Van Gorder did. It showed. I dont believe those players would want to cross Garner. Garner deserves it. Martinez has steadily declined. I hope Martinez resigns to save CMR the heat that will be put on him for not firing him.
Ah yes. Garner. The recruiting coordinator we absolutely cannot ever lose, no way, no how.
Despite the fact, of course, that he coordinates a recruiting effort that does not appear to be getting the job done. Despite the fact that we've had all these top classes and we don't have a single SEC-caliber quarterback on our 85-man roster. Despite the fact we've had holes on our OL for several years now.
The comment about early signings may have been right on. A lot of guys peak as juniors.
And I still haven't figured out how Mettenberger was so highly rated. He QBed a high-school team that sucked; they finished fourth in their region both years he was the starter.
I know results don't always mean that a player is unskilled, and you can find top talent on crap teams (Odell Thurman was one example -- Monticello was, and is, horrible.) But I just can't see what the draw was with Mettenberger.
And it makes little sense to bring in two quarterbacks at the same time, even less so if you redshirt them both. You end up with a backup quarterback who is just a backup, rather than the next starter.
garner doesn't recruit QB's and Mett is from Athens.
why he was highly rated but his team was unsuccessful is obvious if you saw any of his highlights. his receivers and oline were both TERRIBLE. they ran a crappy offense with short, slow receivers that couldn't catch and an oline that couldn't block. then when that 6'5" QB with a cannon went to QB camps he blew people away despite never getting a chance to play with good players in HS and all that.
he's raw, but talented and is honestly the anti-joe cox.
According to Tee Martin (former UT QB who worked with Mett at a camp)Mettenberger has a more powerful arm than Stafford...for what it's worth...so that may or may not put Mett ahead of Murray.
time will tell...
old dawg
Zach got offered b/c his mom works in the athletic dept.
Reminds me of Clemson giving a scholly to CMR's son.
CFB is not the place 4 favours. It should be a meritocracy. It was when CMR was coaching kids he didn't know. But now he looks just like Donnan in 2K refusing to hold his favorites accountable.
I hope he gets his head right b/w now & 2010. Otherwise he'll be fishing w/ the Bowden family come 2011.
Maybe Richt could ask Donnan to come back as a Recruiting Consultant. Richt seemed to do pretty well with the guys Donnan recruited
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