First some back story: In 1985, Georgia Southern offensive coordinator Paul Johnson convinced Erk Russell to install a derivation of the wishbone --the "flexbone"-- also known as the triple option. It has been wildly successful in Statesboro, including a six national championships.When Paul Johnson left Georgia Southern for Navy, Ga. Southern hired current Georgia Tech co-offensive line coach Mike Sewak as head coach, firing him in 2005 with 35-14 record for not living up to the program's expections.
Enter
No reason. Just like this photo. Pardon the prelude. You ask: what does this have to do with us? Georgia Southern's final game of the season is Saturday, and the axe could fall on Hatcher shortly thereafter. Georgia Southern fans would like nothing better than to see the triple option return. The best candidates to do that are people who have worked with Paul Johnson. Which means that Georgia Southern may pluck a coach from Paul Johnson's staff. Likely candidates include:
- Giff Smith, Georgia Tech recruiting coordinator and defensive line coach. Giff Smith is a Georgia Southern graduate, former Georgia Southern and Navy assistant. He's probably the leading candidate and sentimental favorite.
- Todd Spencer, Georgia Tech co-offensive line coach. No ties to Georgia Southern, but has 25 years of experience coaching option offenses.
- Brian Bohannon, Georgia Tech quarterbacks coach. A UGA grad, Bohannan played under Coach Goff, graduating in 1993. He been with Paul Johnson for more than a decade. The quarterback is key in the triple option, and Georgia Southern may want to hire a young guy.
- Ivin Jasper, Navy offensive coordinator. The only likely non-Tech assistant candidate, Jasper is a Hawaii graduate, but coached with Johnson at Georgia Southern and Navy. Navy's win over Notre Dame didn't hurt his chances. Let's hope he doesn't get it.
62 comments:
Sorry to say this, but it aint gonna hurt CPJ. He's the brains of the operation.
No doubt, from a scheme standpoint. CPJ is the L. Ron Hubbard of the triple option. But losing his recruiting coordinator could set him back a recruiting class.
Wishfull thinking "Dawg Nation". Your going down again this year and you might as well get used to it for the years to come!
Giff Smith is the one that would hurt Tech the most if he left - he's the guy who single handedly turned around GT's recruiting in the state of Georgia. The monster 2007 class (Nesbitt, Dwyer, Morgan, Burnett, etc) was largely a result of his work, and GT has clearly stepped up recruiting under his lead.
Nathan-
Giff smith was not responsible for getting Nesbitt and dwyer to play at tech. Georgia was, we didn't want them so they setteled for tech.
Who cares? GT is shit. Their offense is a gimmick that won't be relevant come this time next year once more teams get used to it. Their "football program" (if you can call it that) will be once again insignificant in a couple of years so why even worry about this.
Their fairweather football fans will have to go back to watching basketball.
Case in point: This year might be one of their best years in over a decade and one of our worst in the same time period, and we'll still steamroll them on Thanksgiving weekend. Nuff said.
Wade, I wish you were right. I would like to think that the triple option is a gimmick that will get figured out, but I just don't see any evidence of that.
Losing Smith would be a minor setback for Tech, but its not hard to sell recruits on a program that is already in BCS contention in its second year. Especially to running backs, who would love to get as many touches as a Dwyer. If Tech can win a BSC bowl this year, there are going to plenty of high school juniors and seniors who will be very interested in hearing what CPJ and staff have to say.
As a Bulldog, it mains me to write all of this. But in order to defeat one's enemy, one must fully know the enemy. We need to do some serious film work over Thanksgiving break fellas. CMR, use your connections to the U to get some ideas from Randy Shannon and co.
Losing Giff Smith would certainly hurt them the most. He's the closest thing they have to a Rodney Garner, recruiting-wise.
And I've never understood why Nebraska didn't set the coordinates on the school jet for Annapolis when they hired Pellini instead. I could see them and/or TAMU- provided they don't bee-line for Tuberville, which would also make a great hire for them- paying Johnson whatever it takes to bring his show out there. I believe his daughter is a Junior at Westminster, so the next couple of years bear watching his career arc.
That said, I hope he stays there forever, or at least long enough for us to get a competent DC in place to remind him and all Tech fans of their place in the larger scheme of things.
"Their offense is a gimmick that won't be relevant come this time next year once more teams get used to it."
LOL, you clowns were saying that last year too. We've actually done better for the most part against teams who have already seen it once (FSU, UNC, Virginia, VT, MSU, Duke, Clemson).
UNC has a top 10 rush defense. VT has a top 15 defense. Clemson has a top 20 defense. Duke, Vandy, Wake, and Virginia aren't terrible on defense either. I believe we put up at least 300 rushing yards on each of those teams and in some cases 500-600 total yards.
GT is 11th in total offense despite a Sagarin SOS of 12 (Mutts are 15th). Factoring out the 2 teams who have seen the option before, we only lose 18 yards of total offense per game. Plus those two teams are Wake and Vandy, so you'd expect us to get more yards on them than better defensive teams like UNC, VT, and Clempson.
"Georgia Southern fans would like nothing better than to see the triple option return. The best candidates to do that are people who have worked with Paul Johnson."
Definitely some wishful thinking on your part re Giff Smith. First of all, check your link tit-for-brains. Smith was never at Navy. You also need to realize that Smith only coached offense ONCE, and that wasn't under Paul Johnson. Giff has no idea how CPJ runs the spread option. He's been a defensive line coach for the last ten years and a secondary coach for two years before that.
I understand the sentiment behind hiring him, but they aren't gonna hire him to install the triple option.
Personally, I think they'll look to someone with more head coaching experience. Hatcher had two head coaching jobs by the time he was hired. I think they'll also give Hatcher a longer leash - you act like he's never won a game but this was his first season under .500.
One of the sillier articles I've ever seen on this blog. Sorry to say, but it's the truth.
"As a Bulldog, it mains me to write all of this. But in order to defeat one's enemy, one must fully know the enemy. We need to do some serious film work over Thanksgiving break fellas. CMR, use your connections to the U to get some ideas from Randy Shannon and co."
I wouldn't go so far as to say Miami shut us down. Dwyer left the game hurt and Miami beat us by controlling the clock and taking advantage of mistakes/a slow start, almost like LSU in the Peach Bowl (muffed punt/recovered onside/etc).
I think the best recipe for stopping us was shown in quarters 2 and 3 of the Clemson game. The only problem is you need some pretty strong D-Line personnel to do that. LSU and Clemson definitely have/had that. Georgia is good in that respect, but I don't think they are the same level as either of those teams, and maybe not even UNC. I'd guess Tech puts up 350 on the ground and 100 in the air to win 28-17 with a Greenless Georgie, but what do I know?
Weak post. Embarrassing for dawg fans.
Wade,
I bet that's what Notre Dame fans were telling themselves about Navy in 2007.
Give 'em credit. Paul Johnson is a great fit at GT because of their program's profile which might change their profile. He's a hell of a coach and I'd prefer for him to leave The Flats. I don't think he will, however.
I also don't think he's going to own Georgia. He's simply going to win more than his fair share (which means 1 out of 3 or 4 as opposed to 1 out of 6 or 7).
Hoping for Georgia Southern to hire away an assistant to send the program crumbling to its knees? (And yeah, I'm sure GSU's first choice to install the triple option will be a defensive line coach who was a hold-over from the Gailey era. Good call.) Cheerleading for Johnson to abandon a top 10 team two years into his job to run off to pull a reclamation project at a Big 12 school where he has zero recruiting ties? Trotting out the good old "gimmick offense" and "everyone will be used to it this time next year" lines? (Compare GT's offensive stats this year to last year's - clearly, everyone's figured it out!)
Congrats. Some of you guys are turning into the GT fanbase circa 2007, and it only took one loss instead of seven.
Why do you nerds continue to refer to Georgia Tech's offense as the "spread option?" What exactly is "spread" about it? It is a typical wishbone, triple-option and then Nesbitt throws weak jumpballs to D. Thomas and he outjumps safeties for them half the time. I don't see any spread components in anything I've seen from GT the past two years.
The triple offense is effective for the same reason smallpox is deadly. It's a historical anachronism that no one ever sees any more, so it's hard to defend against.
There's a reason people quit running it years ago: defenses figured it out and shut it down. Now, it's effective because it requires a different technique than defending the other 11 games on the schedule. After a few seasons, you'll see diminishing returns.
Tech will continue to lose games (including Nov. 28) for the same reason Paul Johnson averages more than four losses a year since 2002: his teams can't play a lick of defense.
Hmm. I don't think this really affects UGA too much. But just in case, GO DOGS this weekend. (the ones in baby blue, that is)
FisheriesDawg,
That's exactly what Willie M. thought last year - "They run the wishbone! I'll pull out Wannstedt's old playbook to defend it! Perfect!" Perfect, except we lit you up for 400+ rushing yards. Why? Because this isn't the wishbone, it's a spread offense. The wishbone is a power running offense, designed to get lots of large blockers to the point of attack.
Our offense is designed to stretch the defense horizontally and vertically to create running space.
By all means, keep thinking it's the wishbone. I hope your DC does the same. It's certainly within his abilities.
In my opinion, GT is not in any danger if they lose any of these assistants, because Johnson has won with this system (or its variants) pretty much everywhere for the last 15 years.
However ... I think that CPJ will be South Carolina's #1 target when Spurrier leaves the Gamecocks in 1-3 years.
Oh and then USC will get really scary.
dcyellowjacket,
I don't think you understand what the whole "spread" concept means. I understand the point is to get the pitch man out into the open by spreading the defense, but it in no way resembles the type of spread that you see from Florida, Utah, Texas Tech, Hal Mumme, etc. You're still following the traditional triple option concept whereby you hope to catch a guy cheating on their assignments because somebody else isn't doing theirs. I'm sure there are plenty of theoretical ways to put a spread component into Johnson's offense, but I certainly haven't seen it yet.
I realize you spread the offense horizontally. That's what the option does (and has always done). You certainly don't spread it vertically. Teams don't trust Nesbitt's arm enough for him to spread them vertically. He needs to thank God every night that Thomas is so good at jump balls or his completion percentage would be somewhere around 25%. You have virtually no quick, intermediate routes that are the hallmark of a spread offense. Your playbook typically consists of "option, option the other way, option, THROW IT DEEP TO BEBE!"
That's not a spread offense.
And the reason your guys ran up 400+ yards is because we forgot to tackle. It isn't that hard to know how to defend Johnson's offense. It all starts with the DTs making the dive irrelevant, goes to the LB making a good scrape and the DE staying home, and ends with the CB/Safety (whoever has the pitch man) not getting completely punked. We didn't do that in the second half and that's why you ran up so many yards.
Where the challenge comes in for defending Johnson's offense is making sure your defenders play consistently and intelligently. It made it that much harder last year when we had an unmotivated team whose season had already ended.
I realize you guys always have the need to feel intellectually superior to everyone else, but it is just an offensive system, same as any other. If it were perfect and undefendable, everyone would run it. The reason it works so well is that today's defenses aren't set up to play it and nobody has recruited while considering GT as a threat. The same thing happened with Florida when Meyer showed up...now that the defenses are better set up against the spread, their offensive output has slowed considerably.
It is a great fit for you guys because it tends to equalize talent gaps. Unfortunately for y'all, though, it'll never win a MNC for you due to some shortcomings (hence the reason most teams quit running it in the late 70s). First, it makes things incredibly tough to come back from behind (without some serious good luck like a fumbled KO return between two blown assignment plays on defense). Second, the turnover bug is always going to have a good chance of rearing its ugly head and preventing you from even having a shot in a game. Third, if you by some miracle made it to a MNC game, chances are that it would be against a defense good enough to completely snuff things out. For instance, you guys would get eaten alive by Bama or Florida's defenses this season. If your defense doesn't get about 1000 times better before then, you'd flat-out get embarrassed.
Tech has had a horseshoe up their asses all season. You've won every close game you've had (including games you had no business hanging on for like Clemson and Wake), but eventually that's going to run out. I suggest you guys talk to Charlie Weis about "schematic advantages" and come back to earth. Time to wake y'all guys up to that reality a little bit next weekend.
I would hope GSU might look at our staff as a possible hire as opposed to GT. Just sayin...
Well said FisheriesDawg
"Why do you nerds continue to refer to Georgia Tech's offense as the "spread option?" What exactly is "spread" about it?"
Four skill positions (non-TE) lined outside of the tackles / two skill position players inside the tackles. Only one player is more than a yard off the line. Wide offensive line splits, almost double what is in a standard "pro-style" offense. Wide receivers split out much further from the tackles than other standard formations.
What part about it isn't a spread offense? Getting the ball from the shotgun does nothing to spread the field, moving players outside the tackles does.
"It is a typical wishbone, triple-option and then Nesbitt throws weak jumpballs to D. Thomas and he outjumps safeties for them half the time."
Do you even know what the wishbone is? Yeah, its technically a variant of the wishbone (called the flexbone), but the triple option is a single play that is run maybe 1/7 of the time. We also run draws, screens, another option called the midline option, counters, etc. Calling it a triple option offense is like calling other passing offenses the inside post offense or outside curl offense.
"I don't see any spread components in anything I've seen from GT the past two years."
You clearly are either (i) so biased you can't think clearly; (ii) haven't been paying attention; (iii) don't know what you are talking about; or (iv) all of the above.
There is a reason Urban and Mullen spoke with Paul Johnson regularly about their offenses. It's because they all stem from the same spread principles. Just because PJ runs the ball a lot more than other spread offenses doesn't mean that he's not trying to spread the defense across the field to open up running lanes.
Pretty weak post from a fanbase that supposedly knows a lot about football.
"There's a reason people quit running it years ago: defenses figured it out and shut it down. Now, it's effective because it requires a different technique than defending the other 11 games on the schedule. After a few seasons, you'll see diminishing returns.
Tech will continue to lose games (including Nov. 28) for the same reason Paul Johnson averages more than four losses a year since 2002: his teams can't play a lick of defense."
Child please. Do any of you mutts know anything about football? Paul Johnson has been running the same damn plays since the mid 1980s. Navy played major D1 schools year in and year out. If defenses haven't "figured it out" after 24 years, they certainly won't now.
LSU "figured it out" because they had some pretty sick D-linemen. Most offenses wouldn't run on them when healthy (which they weren't for most of the year).
If Paul Johnson were really going to see diminishing returns, you would think Navy would have seen such returns against a team they faced all the time, like Notre Dame, as opposed to Navy beating them in 2007.
Most important, the fact that Paul Johnson has only averaged 4 losses since 2002 when all but one of those seasons WAS AT NAVY is remarkable. Navy went to 9 bowls from its first game in 1882 until Paul John arrived in 2002. Paul Johnson took them to 5 bowls in 6 years.
Are you really criticizing his NAVY teams and their 1 and 2 star recruits for not having a stellar defense?
For those of you that don't know good teams win close games and don't find a way to lose a game. As far as Tech being "LUCKY ALL YEAR", yeah we have had some lucky breaks during some games but so does everyone else. Its no different than Pollack laying on his back in the endzone and having a ball land in his arms.
The spread offense not working anymore is a joke. If you believe that this offense will not continue to work then you are drinking the same koolaid as all the other skeptics. This offense is like any other offense out there because all offenses boil down to one thing...execution. If I am able to execute my gameplan against an opposing defense then I will have success. Same goes for a defense. Miami did a good job against Tech and executed their gameplan.
If you really want to know the difference between CPJ's team and CMR's team, it's discipline and execution. Let's face it guys everyone in the world can tell you that the Bulldog's have more talent than Tech year and year out, but they don't live up to their full potential as a team.
To win you must have discipline, execution, and team first attitude.
So to all you Georgia fans, you guys keep on looking for anything you can to tear Tech down. Tech will just keep on building and keep moving on.
So till then save all your BS until we settle it on the field.
"Pretty weak post from a fanbase that supposedly knows a lot about football."
I will say that's a surprisingly well-thought out retort from a fanbase that knows very little about it and probably has less than 10% of its fans who have ever even lined up for a down of the game. Welcome to the world of trying to understand the game of football, Tech fans.
That said, I still don't buy the concept that this offense is a spread. Regardless of the line splits or the fact that you have receivers split out every play which the traditional wishbone didn't, there isn't a spread philosophy to the offense. The point of the spread is to create mismatches in space (e.g. a speedy WR on a LB) that allow your offense the freedom to move around. The philosophy behind Johnson's offense is to keep pounding at the defense until somebody screws up and then a play breaks open. Those are two VERY different approaches.
I realize that every play Tech runs isn't the triple option. But nearly every play is based off of some variation of it. The point is to catch a player cheating to defend one thing he's seen a few times and exploit that.
Look, I've been watching Johnson's offenses for a long time. I watched him when I could when he was at Southern and went to Navy games when I lived in DC. I know what he runs. Why is it, though, that I never heard his offense referred to as a "spread" until the talking heads at ESPN decided to coin the phrase when the spread offense was at its fullest hype last season?
It is a flexbone. I'd call what Meyer did at Utah the best example of a true spread option. That's not what Johnson runs.
Anon 1:47 p.m.: I guess Pollack must have been laying on his back from the weight of all of the trophies he took home as the nation's best defensive lineman. As far as PJ goes, if he's not gay, he's missed a good opportunity.
Anon 1:47:
Nobody said the spread didn't work. But Florida is averaging nearly 20 points less in SEC games this year than last. Part of that is no Percy. Part of it is less short fields (not that many less, though). Part of it, though, is defenses being set up to play against it (e.g. speedier outside linebackers, lots of 4-2-5).
The spread will always work when you have the athletes to do it. When you don't, and the other teams you play know what they're looking at, bad things happen. Just ask 2008 Auburn.
If you gave Paul Johnson the recruiting base of Florida or Texas (or even Georgia), sure he could keep racking up crazy numbers on offense even if people were paying him their utmost attention. He's never going to have that at Tech, though, so let's stop pretending that's even an option (no pun intended).
"If Paul Johnson were really going to see diminishing returns, you would think Navy would have seen such returns against a team they faced all the time, like Notre Dame, as opposed to Navy beating them in 2007."
The offense is obviously effective. But I maintain that it won't do more than win 9 or 10 games, at best, because this type of offense will always be susceptible to turnovers, and it will always get beat by a disciplined and athletic team.
Using the argument that Navy beat Notre Dame in 2007 is pretty stupid. They hadn't beaten ND in 40+ years. I'll take that win percentage. Oh, and ND sucks.
You can't take away from Johnson, he's clearly a great coach. And Tech is having a good year. But I think this offense has a ceiling.
"That said, I still don't buy the concept that this offense is a spread. Regardless of the line splits or the fact that you have receivers split out every play which the traditional wishbone didn't, there isn't a spread philosophy to the offense. The point of the spread is to create mismatches in space (e.g. a speedy WR on a LB) that allow your offense the freedom to move around. The philosophy behind Johnson's offense is to keep pounding at the defense until somebody screws up and then a play breaks open. Those are two VERY different approaches."
Yeah, let's disregard all of the staples of a spread offense and mischaracterize the purpose of CPJ's offense. I agree, if you ignore all the evidence and misstate his purpose then yes, you are correct in that it is not a spread.
You say that the "point of the spread is to create mismatches in space (e.g. a speedy WR on a LB)." We do that on every play. First, re the passing game, the fact that we spread the field means that only one defensive back can be on Bey Bey every play. As you yourself admit, half of our offense is lobbing it up to him. The only reason that is possible is because he is in single coverage, largely due to the spread.
Re running (and this is a little more complex so bear with me), spreading out the field creates those very same mismatches and opens up running lanes. By spreading the field, CPJ isolates the guy who he thinks will screw up. If the offense was bunched together, he couldn't do that because there would be multiple players from the other side near the play.
For example, take a typical triple option play. The only guys who can tackle Dwyer are the ends, because the line is spread so far. The tackles and middle linebacker(s) are unable to make a play on Nesbitt as he comes around the end because the play is a good 5 or so yards further away from the center than a normal offense. It also allows the linemen to get into the backfield to block the middle/ outside linebackers and safety. Because the WRs are split out so far, a cornerback has no chance at making a play, primarily because a 6'4 receiver with a 30 pound advantage is launching him into the sideline.
Thus, because of the spread you end up with those same mismatches - QB on DE and A-Back on safety. Moreover, if CPJ wants to isolate a different defensive back / outside linebacker he can.
Either way, to say that all we do is keep pounding until someone messes up is a gross oversimplification of this offense, particularly the blocking schemes.
"I realize that every play Tech runs isn't the triple option. But nearly every play is based off of some variation of it."
Not really, a lot of the draws he runs aren't variations of it at all. The run and shoot stuff (although I wish he'd run it more) obviously comes from the other side of the spread tracks.
"Why is it, though, that I never heard his offense referred to as a "spread" until the talking heads at ESPN decided to coin the phrase when the spread offense was at its fullest hype last season?"
I'd guess that you either had your head in the sand or you should stop listening to the talking heads at ESPN. The original Southern playbook that's on the internet refers to the main formation (2 a-backs on the tackle) as the "spread" formation. The date of that document is I think from his first stint at Southern, but maybe from the second. Either way, its at least ten years old. Just cause Bob Davie still thinks its a wishbone doesn't mean he knows what he is talking about.
Damn, is there a link to this post on those GT winers' website? I love how one win by only 3 points gets them fired up so well. Can't wait for Thanksgiving night to see the look on my uncle's face (GT fan) when all the GT fans have left their so called "stadium" in the third quarter.
Husky:
Well said. I'm certainly not trying to make the argument that GT is going to only win three games or something next year by any means (though one can certainly hope). These guys are so wrapped up in hero worship of Paul Johnson, though, they're ignoring the basic concepts of football. There is no perfect offense.
As I said, I think running that offense is a good fit for them. It is going to keep them in every game they play when things go right that they wouldn't otherwise win (2008 UGA). They're also going to lose a couple they shouldn't because of the offense's shortcomings (UNC and UVA 2008, Miami 2009). That's all.
"Anon 1:47 p.m.: I guess Pollack must have been laying on his back from the weight of all of the trophies he took home as the nation's best defensive lineman."
Did Pollack get another year of eligibility? I thought he was on TV now and not playing against Paul Johnson.
"Using the argument that Navy beat Notre Dame in 2007 is pretty stupid. They hadn't beaten ND in 40+ years. I'll take that win percentage. Oh, and ND sucks."
Yeah that's the point. They hadn't won in FORTY YEARS. Moses was lost in the desert for that long. That's just one example of how CPJ turned that program around and, because of how long it was, it is a great example of how effective his offense is. If there were diminishing returns than you would expect the 6th time in a row ND faced the spread ND would crumple Navy, instead of losing to them for the first time in FORTY YEARS.
"But I think this offense has a ceiling."
I think that's fair. The ceiling is probably 300-350 yards/game rushing and 100-150 yards/game passing. Don't forget, Nesbitt doesn't have the best arm in the world and a lot of the run and shoot aspects of the offense that were in place at hawaii haven't seen the light of day yet.
"There is no perfect offense."
Nobody is saying that its a perfect offense. It's a great fit for Tech though because it brings RBs in in droves (the easiest position for Tech to recruit). It also lets Tech recruit undersized offensive linemen who aren't as sought after by the ugas/clemsons/auburns/etc of the world. Ditto QBs (really just recruiting against Florida, etc.). Believe it or not, it will also really help Tech recruit tall WRs. What 6'4 WR isn't going to want man coverage by a 5'11 safety 35 yards downfield all game long? I hate to say it but AJs numbers would be ridiculous in this offense.
Because they don't use 3-4 WR sets, they really only need 2 WRs. GT can also recruit undersized WRs and play them at A-Back (they'll get 5-10 touches a game and maybe a few balls thrown their way, particularly if they can catch).
Also - lets be clear on the shortcomings. The only teams I've really seen shut us down on offense are LSU and Clemson for a couple of quarters. Much of the UNC, LSU, and Miami losses were caused by poor defense, turnovers, poor execution, etc. It had nothing to do with the offensive scheme, but everything to do with the team itself. Those are games Tech would have lost with Jesus as its coach (assuming he couldn't use any god juice).
As I said, I think running that offense is a good fit for them. It is going to keep them in every game they play when things go right that they wouldn't otherwise win (2008 UGA).
FisheriesDawg, you're exactly right. The flexbone is perfect for schools like Georgia Southern, Georgia Tech and Navy who will never be able to out-recruit major programs for big, fast guys. So they take small, fast guys and run the option to equalize the size disadvantage.
Similarly, the reason why Paul Johnson's never had a team with a decent defense: he's never coached at a school that could attract future NFL talent. That's no knock on Johnson. He's a good coach. At a real school he'd be lethal. At Tech, his best bet is to score as much as he can and pray that his defense will be able to make 1-2 stops per game. Proof? But-for Stafford's pick 6, Tech is on the sucker's end of an eight game losing streak.
Wow... Obviously, all games are lost because of "poor defense, turnovers, poor execution".
Go back to reading Paul Johnson's book for HIGH SCHOOL COACHES and take down the FAT HEAD of him glued to your ceiling.
"Much of the UNC, LSU, and Miami losses were caused by poor defense, turnovers, poor execution, etc. It had nothing to do with the offensive scheme, but everything to do with the team itself."
I'd argue that turnovers have a lot to do with the offensive scheme, be it from fumbling pitches or bad passes from a quarterback that practices running the ball most of the time. Turnovers are one of the main reasons more teams don't run the option/flexbone/wishbone/PAUL JOHNSON MIRACLE OFFENSE THAT IS GOING TO WIN ELEVEN MNC GAMES IN THE NEXT DECADE!!!!/etc. full time.
Along those same lines, we could say that Bobo and Martinez have been perfect this year, they've just been saddled with Joe Cox and Bryan Evans, respectively.
Dawgnoxious ... your comment is why I think CPJ will be the top candidate at USC when the Head Ball Coach retires.
South Carolina has pretty good high school football but without the total #'s of D-1 athletes of a GA or FL. Several of the good high school programs still run option based offense.
They have a recent history of playing good, physical defense with lots of NFL caliber talent.
Fisheries - I agree with you generally but those games had standard fumbles - bad snaps, muffed punt returns, and plain simple fumbles. I don't think there was a pitch based fumble that whole game.
"Along those same lines, we could say that Bobo and Martinez have been perfect this year, they've just been saddled with Joe Cox and Bryan Evans, respectively."
Not really, part of your main complaint with Willie is that he can't scheme. Part of the complaint with Bobo is that the plays he calls are too conservative/predictable, such as that FB dump pass y'all do. I know y'all hated his scheme in the OK St game, where you looked amazing the first possession of the game then went away from what worked.
I don't think anyone is criticizing the offensive coaching from the Miami/LSU/UNC games (well, except for the Belichikish going for it on 4th down on your own 20 something against LSU). We just didn't execute and got outplayed on both ends of the ball.
Yeah, no team would want to run that style of offense. Too many turnovers. I mean, GT and Navy have combined for 25 turnovers this year. That's unconscionable! They should run a good pro-style offense like UGA, where they only have 22.
Wow. There's an awful lot of Bulldog whistling past the graveyard, here in the comments. It's an exercise in delusion to pretend that the flexbone/option-based spread isn't dangerous, and that Johnson isn't an excellent coach, and probably one of the top five in the nation at making in-game offensive adjustments. Two 1-AA titles as OC at Georgia Southern, two more there as HC; Hawaii's first bowl game was under Johnson as OC; what Johnson did at Navy, most fans know; and what's done for Tech in two seasons speaks for itself.
Yeah, Georgia Southern might raid Tech for a HC -- though I would guess Jasper up at Navy before anyone at Tech. And BTW, several small colleges pile up wins and yardage running the triple option, including the top three rushing teams in the NAIA, and the top two in NCAA Division 3. Those small-college programs could be raided by the Eagles if a return to triple option is sought.
Talking Points!:
Please explain to us why more teams don't run the flexbone in college and/or the NFL. I'd like to hear what some of the North Ave. Kook-Aid drinkers have to say.
To heck with PJ and the rest of Tech. We're going to GATA in 2 weeks...and make the nerds at starfleet academy north avenue cry!
Go Dawgs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PWD, I love your blog and have followed it for years, but this is an embarrassing post. You're treating GT like they're USC/UF or something, and come off as desperate (in hoping they lose an assistant to GSU). Who gives a flip if someone leaves for GSU---Johnson still runs the show. And besides, with our huge talent edge we should beat GT 8 out of 10 years, and should have last year if our D didn't utterly implode in the second half.
GT has only beaten us once this century...I'm still not all that concerned about them.
I still say that hanging your hat on one win (okay, now it's 2 wins) for Navy over a horrible, poorly coached ND team in 40+ years is a poor example of the option's effectiveness.
The option does neutralize size/athleticism differences, but I still think that a disciplined, athletic team will always beat it. Hence, the win ceiling. Just my opinion. If I'm proven wrong, I'll admit it. I think it'll be really, really tough for Johnson to recruit a solid passer, because most QB's don't want to take the punishment associated with this kind of offense...and, it pretty much kills your pro-stock.
I didn't write it. Daxgnoxious did, and I think his overall point is correct. It would hurt their recruiting to lose Giff Smith.
That's all he is really saying.
As for your comment:
"GT has only beaten us once this century...I'm still not all that concerned about them."
You should be concerned. Nesbitt can barely hit the broad side of a barn as a QB, but he's the most athletic belly option QB since Tommy Frazier in '96.
White was running a zone read which is much more finesse than what GT runs, and they run it at an extremely high level.
We win if we tackle well, play assignment football, play to our talent level and don't turn the ball over.
But how many times have we done that this year? If you're not concerned, you haven't been paying attention.
PWD
My point was more about schadenfreude than anything else. Anything that makes Tech sad makes me happy. I've probably lived through more Leap Years than Tech victories, but when something disappointing happens to their program (even in a year we beat them 51-7) I enjoy the hell out of it.
I recall a lot of folks saying Urban Meyer's spread would never work in the SEC with all the speed on defense. It has worked quite well.
I would say that Paul Johnson is a brilliant coach. Someone said, Tech's offense would not win more than 9 or 10 games in a season. Heck, few teams each year win 10 games regardless of the offense they run.
Guess what, an I formation, pro set offense is subject to turnovers as well. UGA seems to have a problem keeping the ball. UGA has 22 turnovers (thru 11/7) and Tech had 15. (Air Force has a whopping 7 turnovers as another example to poke a hole in that hypothesis).
When a team is winning a BCS conference title, people will not care what offense they are running. If Richt left tomorrow and UGA brought in a spread offensive coach and win the SEC, no one here would be saying a damn thing negative about it. Let's also leave aside whether what Tech runs is a spread or not as the label seems vague, I would just call it an ideal offense for the caliber of athlete Tech can get).
As for why Nebraska hired Pellini, Nebraska felt like its defense was the biggest issue needing fixed (correctly) and that Pellini was the guy to do it. He has made some strides in that area (being in CO, I get a bit of NU news). I cannot recall anyone calling it a bad hire---it might not work in the long run, but that is going to happen more often than not no matter who you are. Heck, UGA has had its share.
Husky Jeans, I doubt Johnson would want a prostyle passer so that works out well. (Ironic that Nesbitt was such a prolific HS passer). A Stafford would never go there, but then Johnson would never recruit him either. Just as Richt would never recruit a Pat White (at least not to play QB). As a college football fan, I only care about what they do as college players. If a great college player never plays a down in the pros, that, to me, does not diminish his accomplishments as a collegian. Tommie Frazier, JC Watts and even the likes of Ray Goff were among my fav college QBs.
"I still say that hanging your hat on one win (okay, now it's 2 wins) for Navy over a horrible, poorly coached ND team in 40+ years is a poor example of the option's effectiveness. "
I think you mutts are missing the point. The point isn't showing how effective it is. The point is law of diminishing returns. Navy and Notre Dame I believe played each other every year under CPJ. The argument earlier was that teams will figure this out and it won't be effective. The point that you all are missing is that the triple option was MOST effective against Notre Dame the SIXTH time they saw it. It's not something you just "figure out." If you play good defense you have a chance to stop it. If you don't you won't. It's just like every other offensive scheme, there's no magic to it. It's just that Tech has gotten pretty effective at running it and its hard to stop with only a weeks preparations (didnt uga have 2 weeks last year? Maybe I'm making that up).
"The option does neutralize size/athleticism differences, but I still think that a disciplined, athletic team will always beat it."
How is that different from any other formation? Again, there is nothing that special about it. It's a good offense and Tech has the right personnel in to run it. Its success comes more from CPJs ability to coach up players to run it than it does from the scheme itself.
Just like any other offense you can stop it with execution on defense. The main advantage of the scheme is that it puts a lot of pressure on the defense to execute on every play and, provided Tech is executing, leads to very big plays when the other teams defense does not.
You mutts crack me up because you are on CRACK!!!
Diminishing returns really seemed to be the case when CPJ was at GSU...or not
Tech fans,
Go back to your parent's basement and drool over a picture of CPJ.
I expect we will lose to Tech this year, which will make us 7-2 over the last 9 years. Then once we fire Willie, and get a real defense, that should brings things back to normal and give us another 4-7 win run.
Ga Tech fans who believe otherwise are really kidding themselves. The school simply doesn't have the money or the cachet to attract enough talent.
Also.
I forgot. How well did the triple option work against LSU last year?
Are you really pointing to one game to assess the effectiveness of an entire offensive system? I know us UGA folks aren't the math ones, but come on man.
Sam Baker needs to go too.
Having attended GSU back in the day of ERK. He only succeeded Bucky Wagner as AD he never replaced him. He removed Sewak and replaced him with Van Goober. Everyone in the know knows that Baker is as much a part of the problem. I know they must be sick with envy down there watching that yardage machine tearing up the ACC, They Loved PJ for good reasion, and living with the Mummy Dink and Dunk has stunk up Statesboro. GATA,EAGLES & DAWGS
Michael, let me "brings" this up. The triple option worked pretty well against UGA last year. And don't even put Georgia in the same class as LSU...are you crazy man?
Anon @ 10:04, I'm hoping the triple option replicates its effectiveness with Gardner-Webb last year.
Dawgnoxious, I thought this was a really good post right up to the last line. "Come-On-Man" ! We're talking PJ hear not Bo Pelini. Pelini in the same sentence as CPJ. NOT ! Pelini is a rookie in comparison. Oh excuse me, Richt is too. You can talk smack if you like about Tech, this is a Georgia Blog that I really like. The best by far of all the sports blogs I view. It's just wishful thinking man. It's gonna be a long haul !Would the next Theron Sapp please stand up !
GSU fires Hatcher
http://www.statesboroherald.com/multimedia/840/
Dawgnoxious is obnoxious!!!
If you look at the stats, PJ's offenses at GSU and Navy topped out the second year, and went down from there. This pattern is repeating itself at Tech.
Enjoy it now. The ACC will catch onto your gimmick offense sooner than you think.
GSU 1997 10-3, '98 14-1, '99 13-2 NC, 2000 13-2 NC, 2001 12-2. Made playoffs every year. Won Southern Conference each year, made playoffs each year. Three NC appearances won 2/3. Mot to shabby.
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