Before everyone freaks out. Let me ask you a question. Have you ever had your car searched after a cop pulled you over for speeding? I mean seriously. WTF.
How fast do you have to be going to have the officer say, "Please step out of the vehicle." And even then, is that probable cause for searching a car? I'll defer that one to our legal experts. The only way I can see them having cause to search his vehicle is:
- A. If he got really smart mouthed with the cop.
B. If he was sitting on the gun when the cop pulled him over and asked him to step out.
C. If the gun was somewhat visible to the officer as he leaned into the window.
I guess I don't get why the search to go looking for it. This one will be interesting to watch as the details come out. Regardless, it's a misdemeanor offense according to the Clarke County Arrest report, and it sounds way worse than it it.
I'm guessing 1 to 2 game suspension for a first time offender if guilty.
PWD
48 comments:
Under O.C.G.A. 16-11-126, "a person commits the offense of carrying a concealed weapon when such person knowingly has or carries about his or her person, unless in an open manner and fully exposed to view, any bludgeon, metal knuckles, firearm, knife designed for the purpose of offense and defense, or any other dangerous or deadly weapon or instrument of like character outside of his or her home or place of business, except as permitted under this Code section." The statute goes on to provide as follows: "this Code section shall not forbid any person....from transporting a loaded firearm in any private passenger motor vehicle in an open manner and fully exposed to view or in the glove compartment, console, or similar compartment of the vehicle;", additionally, "any person in possession of a valid permit...may carry a handgun in any location in a motor vehicle." Stated simply, we don't know enough of the factual circumstances to know where Lomax stands on the charge. However, if he was asked about the presence of weapons and he or a passenger responded affirmatively, then that would likely be probable cause for a search for concealed weapons under the applicable case law.
Erratic behavior - another cause.
It is puzzling. Ordinarily, you would expect the officer to issue a speeding ticket, and it should've ended there.
BTW, carrying a gun in your car is legal if it is out in the open, or in the glove box, or console, etc.
So either:
1) Lomax was carrying the weapon on his person and took some (stupid) action that warranted a search.
or
2) The Athens PD should be slapped with a serious Fourth Amendment lawsuit...
Gun in the glovebox is okay, believe it or not....when I lived in GA I carried one in my glovebox with no permit and, as stated by SLD above, it is okay per GA law....IL, being a very Blue state is quite different, as you might expect....to your larger point though, I have had a couple of speeding tickets and have never been asked to step out of the car, much less have my car searched....I am guessing it was because it was after mid-night, he was young and (not go all Al Sharpton or anything) perhaps his skin tone played a role as well in the search....but, obviously we know very little as to what occured and what probable cause there may or may not have been....so for the time being, just as we should to extend the benefit of doubt to Lomax, I will do the same with the officer, but on the surface it seems unusual
Marquis Elmore's car strikes again ! I'll just be damned !
ABH has an update, with additional detail as to how the stop played out and it all seems perfectly reasonable to me, from the perspective of the officer....he asked if there were any weapons in the car, Lomax indicated that he had a Glock under the seat and therefore he went to jail, as indicated in these responses, the P.D. spokesperson indicated that had Lomax been carrying the gun in the glovebox he would have just received a speeding ticket....
http://www.onlineathens.com/dogbytes/
Yet again, we have a POTENTIAL case where the APD or the UGA police appear to have targeted a current UGA athlete for "special" treatment that the rest of us likely would not have received.
OK. So it looks like Lomax is guilty of being ignorant of a stupid law. Oh, that pistol was infinitley more dangerous under the seat than it would have been in the glove box. Yeah. Right.
Oh BTW, when was the last time a police officer asked any of you about weapons during a routine traffic stop?
I'm a black guy from ATL (in L.A. now) and I still don't get what sort of trouble these guys expect to run up on in Athens that warrants having a gun in the car. Keep your butt on campus and it's all good.
I can't believe no one has asked the one truly pertinent question yet: How many Fulmer Cup Points will this net us?
/sorry, just trying to bring a little levity to the situation...
Anon 11:22
If the gun is hidden in the car (ie. under the seat) it can be obtained in a more clandestine manner than if it is in the glove compartment or in plain view. So I would say that yes, it is more dangerous under the seat.
Second, I have no problem with the officer asking every person he stops if they have a gun. He was obviously correct in this situation.
s.a.w.b.
I'm guessing 2 points 'cause I think both are midsemeanors.
And, I don't disagree with the general statements about the ambiguity of the laws and such. But, the bigger question to me is why the hell did JL think he needed a handgun underneath his seat? Things pretty rough these days in Athens on a Tuesday night in June? He absolutely bears some responsibility in this situation. To paint the issue as one of silly laws and an overzealous APD is innacurate at best.
Anon 12:41:
First of all, let me be clear. I'm not defending Lomax because I'm a UGA homer. In fact, I'm not defending Lomax at all. If the ABH article is accurate, it sounds like he did something dumb and will suffer the consequences - as he should.
This story caught my attention because of the Constitutional issues that might have been in play.
Having said all of that, I'll simply take issue with your statement that the gun was more dangerous under the seat than it would have been out in the open, or in the glove box. I always have a weapon in my vehicle, and it usually stays in my center console. It stays there because I can reach it a heck of a lot quicker there than I could if it were under the seat - therefore making it more dangerous. But all of that is ticky tacky crap. My whole point in the original post was to demonstrate the lunacy of having a law that says you can store a gun in your glove box and drive away, but if you have one under the seat, you are going to jail. And I stand by that opinion. FWIW, the Georgia law was changed in the last decade or so to specifically include the clause about the glove box, console, or similar compartment. When I was a kid, you had to keep it on the seat in plain view - which was also ludicrous.
And since this post is long enough, I won't even get into the Fourth Amendment ramifications of a "police officer asking every person he stops if they have a gun." We'll just have to disagree on that one, too.
slobberknocker:
Thankfully, The Second Amendment doesn't require Lomax to justify his "need" to have a weapon...
Having said that, I will say that he did break the law and should pay the consequences - no matter how ridiculous I think the law is.
In his circumstances, his biggest mistake was having a gun at all. The university certainly has some very strict rules against possessing weapons on campus. I'm betting he drove that car on campus with the pistol in it. He was begging for trouble, and he got it.
dubbayoo & slobberknocker:
It's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.
Amen, Carter!
The AJC report says when asked about weapons in the vehicle, Lomax told them about the unloaded gun under the seat. This is a case of a kid not knowing his rights. He should have said no..and all he would have gotten was a speeding ticket.
I think Anon @1:51 hits on a bog point: if he was driving around on campus in the car he was lucky he was stopped off campus so as to avoid being "Billy Humphried".
I'm not so much worried about how this affects us on the depth chart, I like Jarius Wynn more anyway, as much as I am about from a PR standpoint.
So many people are going to hear "Georgia, blah, blah, football player with gun, blah, blah, black, blah, Soulja Boy, blah, The Celebration..."
Atleast the officer didn't have to question on how Lomax payed for his gas.
And, it's better to obey the laws as stated than to disobey them and go to jail (at least in my book). It doesn't matter if you agree with the law or not. It's the law and you will be penalized if you break it.
And Anon @ 1:51
You're right about the "need" comment. I chose poor sentence structure. I should have said "his need to have an unlicensed concealed weapon".
slobberknocker:
We agree. We are a nation of laws. If you don't like a law, you either work to change it, or you just gripe about it - but you obey it as long as it is law.
Georgia's distinctions about where you can and cannot store a weapon in your car are ludicrous. But you will notice that I said I store mine in my console - therefore I am obeying the ludicrous law. To go to jail for purposefully disobeying the law would be more ludicrous than the law itself.
Ultimately, Lomax could've prevented this whole ordeal several ways - not the least of which would have been to know the law and keep the gun in the glove box or console. But I'm guessing he didn't know those details. Many people don't. I have a concealed carry permit. But I also have a copy of the Georgia Code that I carry in my wallet right next to the permit. I do this because I've met a couple of law enforcement officers in my time that didn't know the law. When I first applied for my permit in the early nineties, the deputy who was fingerprinting me in the county courthouse didn't know the law. That scared the crap out of me. I decided right then that I would always carry a copy of the law in addition to the permit.
Along with the right to carry firearms, there is also a duty for a person to know the laws regarding owning a firearm.
The law may be silly, but the proper recourse is to petition for a change in the law.
Having a gun under the seat is a stupid place to keep it--not for the legal reasons but for practical reasons. It is going to be hard to get it out from under the seat if you need it fast. For this reason keeping it in view on the seat is the best place to have it while you are present.
I could see the charge being reduced or some sort of diversion program that would eventually wipe it out (assuming there are no other charges).
Let's also talk about the fact that he was driving 80mph on what I am guessing is not an interstate HWY (we in the west get to drive that fast in places). That is pretty stupid. (I am not familiar with Loop 10, but I am guessing it is a small state road).
What I find interesting about all this stuff is that when I was a student (here we go with the old folks) the common complaint was about how the athletes got away with everything. Now the complaint is they are persecuted in some way.
I am not sure why the cop asked. At first I thought maybe they were going to have to take him in. In that case I think the usual procedure is to impound the car and make an inventory of its contents.
I think lying about the gun would have been the worse thing to do. If the police had searched the car and found it, what is he supposed to do then? At least in this regard his attorney can argue that while ignorance of the law is not an excuse, Lomax certainly had no intent to hide or avoid having the weapon in the car. It might certainly mitigate the sentence.
slobberknocker:
Forgive me for jumping on the "need" comment. I don't have any problem with someone questioning Lomax' judgment in this situation. There certainly seems to be a lot one could question in this matter.
I just reflexively wince anytime I hear somebody question an American citizen's "need" to keep and bear arms in any particular situation. Lomax certainly seems to have violated a law. But, thankfully, that law wasn't based on his needs.
Again, forgive me for taking the discussion in a decidedly non-sports direction. I quite probably over-reacted.
SkiDawg,
Hwy 10 is the Athens Bypass. Most people drive about 70 on that road. Pretty sure there are stretches where it is 65 and stretches where it is 55.
I've personally gone 105 near the Tallassee Stretch in my Mom's car circa 1990. Sorry Dad. You probably didn't need to know that.
I just needed to see what it would do. You know...in case I was ever chased by a lunatic. I needed to know if the car had the proper "escapability." lol.
I'm not defending him. Just saying.
It's a 4 lane highway. And if you go 80, you'll get pinched eventually.
I didn't get pinched for doing 105. But then again, I didn't maintain that speed very long.
Loop 10 is entirely 4-lane divided and all but a few miles of it is controlled access. There might as well be "Speed Trap Ahead" road signs for the pertinent parts of Loop 10. The locations where cops radar the traffic are very well defined. I do 75-80 most days in the 55MPH section but I sure as heck slow down for the motorcycle cop just between Atlanta Hwy and the exit before Prince (Maybe called Oglethorpe?). I'm surprised Lomax didn't know where to slow down at.
Something tells me they're not going to go too hard on someone for having an unloaded concealed weapon that they immediately told the police about but they're not going to let him off the hook either.
For what it's worth, the only time I got pulled over after 10PM, I was asked if I had any weapons and my car was searched. Getting your car searched by the police when you don't do drugs and haven't been drining is pretty entertaining. I smoked back then so the cop had his head under my driver's seat looking through the 1000 empty packs of smokes I left in the floorboard. The funniest part was when he found my hand rolled cigarette in the ash tray. It was a full cigarette but I accidentally burned the side of it because I hit a bump when lighting it. I just tossed it in my ashtray and forgot about it. He thought he had me. He was all excited. Then he found out it really was just tobacco. I thought he was going to cry.
There are 3 topics everyone's an expert on: politics, gun control, and race relations. Just so happens this covers 2 of them.
Ugh.
87 days.
I disagree about being a nation of laws. The first three words of the constitution read “We the people,” not we the laws, police, teachers, politicians, media or campaign financiers. We must remember that the Bill of Rights includes the 10th Amendment stating “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.” Now in the 2nd Amendment the words “well regulated” open the debate for the people to cede power to the government to require oversight with regards to baring arms and obviously local, legal statutes address the governments place in determining the legality of concealed weapons (probably most violations of the statute rarely include guns). To extrapolate that one young man (that I do not recall being in much trouble before) violating a statute by speeding in a car with an empty pistol (no cartridge in the chamber or magazine loaded) under his seat means free citizens should bow down to the government seems rather extreme; as does one person’s emotional or uninformed observation about another’s need for security.
p.s. florida sucks
Black man, driving a Caprice Classic (your typical hood rat, gangsta ride) doing 80 in a 55, not surprising he was asked if he had a weapon. In my 19 years of driving I've been pulled over probably 18+ times (lead foot) and never once have I been asked if there was a firearm in the car. I've been asked a variety of other question, but I can honestly say I've never been asked about a firearm. Did he screw up by not knowing the law?, sure, should he be held accountable? sure. But I can bet you if it were Stafford or say Chris Davis that question would of never had been asked
PWD - I (stupidly) have you beat.120 heading east between timothy road and milledge.
That's one thing I DO NOT miss about athens...the clarke county cops with too little to do. Thankfully they weren't around when I pulled off that stunt.
145. Interstate 85 south, near Newnan, where you can see that golf course next tot he highway. It was January, 1976, about 5pm on a sunny winter Saturday. The road had just been opened between Newnan and the state line. 3 of us were in a bad ass 1975 Trans Am 455 HO, very similar to the Smokey and the Bandit model, except this one was silver with a big ass red and black bird on the hood.
No traffic, no cops, clear, dry pavement as far as we could see.We just decided to air it out. Personally, I think the thing still had a little top end left, but I was outvoted 2-1, so the throttle was let up off the floor.
It's a very odd feeling when you back off from 145. Going a mere 90 suddenly feels like you're barely moving.
It was incredibly stupid of us, and dangerous. A blown tire, anything goes wrong, really, and we probably all die a fiery death. A state trooper sees us and we're all headed for jail, big fines and a major ass whoopin' at home. But, damn, it was fun at the time. Sometimes, you just have to say, "What the f***."
Lomax should get very gentle treatment from the law. He was apparently polite, cooperative, honest, and forthright. I cant say I think carrying an unloaded gun around in his car was a great idea, but there's no indication he was up to anything. He's no Reuben Houston.
Dante, Why would you ever let a cop search your car, house, etc. without a warrant? If he doesn't have any reason to suspect anything (and speeding doesn't give him any suspicions) then he's never going to get said warrant and he'll let you go. I don't care if you're the Pope and have never done anything remotely wrong in your life, it's not a good idea to give anyone free access to search your property. What if one of his buddies riding in the back seat last week drops a joint? When's the last time you saw the floorboard of your backseat? Just my .02
Dawgwood is right. One time about 20 yrs ago I gave a guy a ride to work at UPS, maybe twice. About 4 months later I was cleaning out my car and found a brown bag under the passenger seat with hard liquor in it. I thought what the...it had to be his because I didn't drink at the time and it was pretty rare for someone else to be in my car, even moreso if they were female. I don't even remember seeing him hit a bottle while he was in the car. He was a slick mofo. Landis Brown, you coulda got me in trouble. :)
As most have said here, pretty dumb to have the gun in the first place. But, I will say this - in roughly 10 traffic stops over 20 years of driving I have only been asked once if I had a weapon in the car and if they could search it.
Yep - that one time ('88) - I had a black friend in the car with me. On the Interstate (64 in a 55). On a Sunday afternoon.
I guess they thought we might be heading over to the local baptist church to hit 'em for the offering plate.
dawgwood, he had me for pretty significant speeding. He didn't have probable cause but I knew after about 15 minutes of fruitless searching, he'd let me go. And he did. Choose your battles, dude.
Okay, reading all of this was too tedious, but I will add this.
Obviously, UGA players should see a trend here- if you are doing anything remotely close to illegal and the ACCPD is near, you are going to get cited or arrested, no questions asked. Since there is no evidence to think this trend is going to change, I suggest that Richt point this out to the players and urge them to not only obey the law, but not even be in a situation where there could be a question about following the law. I mean, crossing at corners, only with the "walk" signal after looking both ways twice without even a open container with a non-alcoholic beverage. Set the cruise control at 24 in town. Don't even buy oregano from the Fresh Market, etc.
Whether he can legally own a gun or not, I would advise Lomax to get rid of it while he is at UGA.
I know, I know, we all did stupid things in college like speed, drink & drive and enjoy the "college experience", but apparently ACCPD isn't going to let that fly for the players. It sucks, but that is the price you pay for a full ride in Athens these days.
AllSchool -- If we're talking all-time fastest....I hit 135 in a Mustang GT just outside of Homerville in the passenger's seat. There's a stretch of road down there that's about 14 miles without a hill or turn.
We were going for 150 or so, but an armadillo walked out onto the road. We strattled it, and the ground effects hit it.
Scared us enough to slow back down.
I had a '75 Pinto with a bad clutch, worse brakes, broken springs and it burned more oil than gas. I still got a speeding ticket just past Tallassee road going back towards the Atlanta Highway.
I don't know what to say. I guy (UGA Player or not) gets pulled over for speeding and during the course of the stop the officer, for his OWN SAFETY, asks if he has any weapons in the vehicle. The officer was advised that a weapon was in the vehicle, but stored in an illegal manner. This results in the "driver" being arrested for violation of law. But not one comment is made regarding the officer having a legitimate right (for his safety) to ask if a weapon is readily available to a person he has stopped on the side of the road. Instead every comment I have read here regarding the actions of the officer basically accuses the officer of either “violating the rights” of the driver for asking, being a racist, or targeting UGA players.
No one likes the police or wants them around until THEY are the victim. Boy, the recognition for police found after 9/11 was sure short lived.
You know, you almost had my sympathy until you had to go and bring 9/11 into it. Now who's being melodramatic?
Did you read the article lomax consented to the search of the vehicle. Which means the cop said "hey can i search your car" and lomax said "sure". how is that possiably a violation of the 4th amendment?
The officer also asked lomax if he had any weapons in the car and lomax said yes i have a gun under my seat. which is a violation of 16-11-126. and a saftey concern if lomax was still in the vehicle at the time.
So basically lomax broke two laws gave permission to the officer for the search of his vehicle and was doing all of this at 1 Am on a weeknight... cant imagine why the officer was suspicous.
However if lomax and pal were respectful and nothing else happened or there isnt a history of problems from him taking him to jail for the actions he commited was a little extreme. I to have often wondered what is up with ACC and the mickey mouse things they arrest football players for(i.e. no license on scooter)
I agree with doug. 9/11 references are the new Godwin's Law.
Not being a super smart girl, I had to check out Dante’s reference to “Godwin’s Law” and I must say, doug and Dante, I think you just made the point anon 1:29 was making. I guess there are only two people in the entire Bulldog Nation that think it is a little funny for the cops to get blamed for enforcing the laws. Such is life, but GO DAWGS!
The problem with police officers in large is that they refuse to use common sense. He asks and receives permission, he looks and finds an unloaded weapon, does this really warrant an arrest or should he have just said "put that in the glove compartment." If we are strictly a nation of laws then with the number we have at the local, state and federal level we all violate then daily. I'm an attorney by the way. Officer should have just ticketed him and let it go but he had to bust somebody.
ACCPD is a joke.
Hay 69dawg, what happens when the cop lets a guy go with a weapon, who he could and should have arrested, and the guy goes to his ex-girlfriend’s house and shoots her. I see two options, you defend the officer for using “common sense” instead of enforcing the law or, option two, you represent the family of the ex-girlfriend in a lawsuit against the officer and the department. Based on “ACCPD is a joke”, I think I know which option you would take. Based on your comment, police are @#%&ed if the do enforce the law and @#$%ed if they don’t. You can’t have it both ways.
well put!!!!! lawyers like 69 are the reason we have so many laws. bottom line dont be a moron and break the law its not hard. every one slips up but to break to laws at once at one in the morning... That takes effort
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