"Florida and LSU have each won national championships since the last time Georgia won the SEC. Is there something missing at Georgia and what must the Bulldogs do to pull even with those programs again?"
Tony Barnhart wrote his response to Ching's question back in April. He basically said, "Absolutely nothing" is missing. When you look at the stats from Barnhart and realize that Georgia leads the SEC in overall and is tied for first in SEC regular season wins since 2001, it's hard to disagree.
We're close as a program. We just aren't there yet.
This week, Ching got one last response to his original question from a national writer. The response was, "Georgia is a program that probably lies out of the top 10 on an annual basis." The columnist goes on to explain why we're not as good as UF, LSU or Bama. Here's my replies (his answers are in bold):
National Columnist: "Georgia is a program that probably lies out of the top 10 on an annual basis."
PWD Retort: Richt has won more games over the past 8 years than any SEC school. Meyer has 2 Top 10 finishes in his four years at UF. During those 4 years, Richt has 3 top 10 finishes. So his point is basically wrong and ill-informed.
NC: "The Dawgs always seem to be missing something. The last couple of years it was the offensive line. This year, heck, it might be quarterback, or secondary."
PWD: Well...that's true. But aren't most schools "missing something" when they aren't winning a national title? Last year, the biggest problem was the injuries to Sturdivant, Owens, Ellerbe and every able bodied DE on the team. That and tackling like the team was endorsed by Charmin. If you're "not missing something" and still not winning national titles (See: Southern Cal) isn't that a bigger issue than "missing something?"
NC: That doesn't make [UGA] a bad program but it has to realize what it is -- not Alabama, not LSU, not Florida.
PWD: Bama? Seriously? Bama? Bama lost to UL-Monroe two years ago, and they're likely going to be on a 3 game losing streak come Sept. 6th. Bama is building something exciting, but Saban hasn't built what Richt has built. Not yet anyway.
NC: This might sound weird but LSU and Florida and Alabama probably have more talented recruiting bases.
PWD: Louisiana and Georgia have comparable recruiting bases based on NFL rosters, recruiting rankings, whatever. This map shows 2007 NFL Rosters by State. Our state was the #4 producer of NFL talent on 2007 rosters. Louisiana, Ohio and Pennslyvania are in a near tie for 5th place. The State of Alabama has almost half as many NFL players as Georgia on active rosters.
The problem GA faces is that Atlanta is a more transient community and there are fewer life long Dawg fans in the state. Alabama's talent base is grossly inferior from a numbers standpoint, but there are more people growing up longing to play for the Tide. Florida obviously has a deeper in state pool. No argument there.
NC: And if there is a five-star player in Alabama, he usually isn't going to Georgia."
PWD: Definitely true. Garner's Alabama connections have been near totally useless. We rarely have more than two scholarship players from Alabama at a time. Currently, we have two.
PWD Retort: Richt has won more games over the past 8 years than any SEC school. Meyer has 2 Top 10 finishes in his four years at UF. During those 4 years, Richt has 3 top 10 finishes. So his point is basically wrong and ill-informed.
NC: "The Dawgs always seem to be missing something. The last couple of years it was the offensive line. This year, heck, it might be quarterback, or secondary."
PWD: Well...that's true. But aren't most schools "missing something" when they aren't winning a national title? Last year, the biggest problem was the injuries to Sturdivant, Owens, Ellerbe and every able bodied DE on the team. That and tackling like the team was endorsed by Charmin. If you're "not missing something" and still not winning national titles (See: Southern Cal) isn't that a bigger issue than "missing something?"
NC: That doesn't make [UGA] a bad program but it has to realize what it is -- not Alabama, not LSU, not Florida.
PWD: Bama? Seriously? Bama? Bama lost to UL-Monroe two years ago, and they're likely going to be on a 3 game losing streak come Sept. 6th. Bama is building something exciting, but Saban hasn't built what Richt has built. Not yet anyway.
NC: This might sound weird but LSU and Florida and Alabama probably have more talented recruiting bases.
PWD: Louisiana and Georgia have comparable recruiting bases based on NFL rosters, recruiting rankings, whatever. This map shows 2007 NFL Rosters by State. Our state was the #4 producer of NFL talent on 2007 rosters. Louisiana, Ohio and Pennslyvania are in a near tie for 5th place. The State of Alabama has almost half as many NFL players as Georgia on active rosters.
The problem GA faces is that Atlanta is a more transient community and there are fewer life long Dawg fans in the state. Alabama's talent base is grossly inferior from a numbers standpoint, but there are more people growing up longing to play for the Tide. Florida obviously has a deeper in state pool. No argument there.
NC: And if there is a five-star player in Alabama, he usually isn't going to Georgia."
PWD: Definitely true. Garner's Alabama connections have been near totally useless. We rarely have more than two scholarship players from Alabama at a time. Currently, we have two.
What are your thoughts? What are we missing?
PWD
47 comments:
To win an MNC, I think you have to have 1) talent, 2) team discipline/leadership, 3) a little luck. I occurs to me that each year, CMR usually has one of the first two, but never both together outside of 2002 and maybe 2007.
Mercy me, is Saban/Bama ever overhyped. The Nicktator has never- Never!- had back-to-back 10-win seasons. Never. Not once. Richt did it from 2002-2005 and is in the midst of another streak. As for Saban reaching the stratosphere in Just! Two! Years!:
Richt's first two at Georgia: 8-4, 13-1 (SEC Champs, Sugar Bowl Champs)
Saban's first two at Bama: 7-6 (with a loss to La-Monroe), 12-2 (SEC Runner-up, Embarrassed the conference in the Sugar Bowl)
Saban never did anything otherworldly awesome with Sparty. With LSU, had a great season, two good seasons (though one involved the massive, massive beatdown in Athens), and two lousy seasons. And again- NO BACK-TO-BACK TEN-WIN SEASONS. Not even once!
Last I checked, Richt leads the SEC in wins this decade. Missed out on the BCSCG because of bad timing in '02 and BS ESPN lobbying in '07. Happens. He'll get there.
What we are missing is the right games. To get to a MNC we must beat Florida, Auburn, and Tennessee in the same year. When was the last time this happened? Losing in 2002 to Florida kept us out. Losing to Tennessee kept us out in 2007. 2007 was the first year since 1983 we beat Florida and Auburn in the same year.
Richt has proved he can beat Auburn and Tennessee. He hasn't proved he can beat Florida on a consistent basis. The Florida game must be circled every year and the Dawgs must stop coaching and playing scared against the Gators.
What is scary is that UGA has struggled since 2006 to beat teams that are should be in the middle of the pack (Vandy, Ole Miss, Miss. State, Kentucky, etc). Other programs seem to make changes to get better while Richt is happy with the status quo 10 wins a year and a new year's day trip to Orlando. It concerns me the program is stuck in neutral.
Anon 12:34 nailed it: We are not perceived nationally as well as the reality, because we failed to beat an inferior UF program from 2002-2007.
All we had to do was NOT wet our pants in Jax during that time period and our national stature would be on par with USC and Oklahoma.
Instead, we allowed UF to remain nationally relevant, even with a borderline mentally retarded coach, during our best stretch in two decades.
Like it or not, perception is reality, and because of our annual bed-wetting in Jax, we, like Auburn, are on the outside of the national perception of greatness in the SEC.
We need national writers to stop short-changing us. I'm still bitter about 2007 and "pollsters" jumping LSU from #7 to #2 just to spite us.
Why is it that these national writers blatantly ignore the fact that Mark Richt has duplicated both the seasons that Les Miles and Urban Meyer have had in their national title years? Actually, we've had 3 seasons since Mark Richt has been here that have been good enough by Florida and LSU standards to play in the MNC. But no... clearly Georgia is just always missing something. Yeah, we're missing something... we're missing the love-fest that LSU and Florida get at the beginning and end of ever single year.
The QB with the most victories in college football history suited up for Georgia during the time period in question.
Just letting you know, pundits. And no, it wasn't Manning or Dorsey.
What is missing? From where is sit it is a coaching staff that can motivate every game! Don't get me wrong, I love what Coach Richt and his staff bring to the table and has shown flashes of brillance in the past (road record & black out game versus Auburn) but Georgia needs to play every game with that level of intensity. The ooaches need to share a "killer" attitude with all...no more "Mr. Nice Guy" (like pulling up in the second half versus FSU in the Sugar Bowl). We appreciated Coach Dooley, Russell and to some extent Van Gorder in pinning the player ears back. I used to love Coach Dooley's "well you know East Bumble University is a good footbal team" speeches to the press to not underhype any team.
An other issue I have is either the coaches are not able to come up with a new game plan quickly or the players are incapable of comprehending in time, because I firmly believe you can not win game after game with the same game plan, unless your talent level is way beyond the competition (like Hershel in the 80s),because the playing field is super level with quality coaches and on-field talent.
If the transience of metro Atlanta is a problem for UGA, why isn't transience a problem for UF?
I'm right in the belly of the beats (Gainesville, FL) and I'd say that the state of Georgia is many times more pro-UGA than Florida will ever be pro-UF.
All we've missed out on is the main catalyst in this day and age of the BCS; LuckIn 2002, we were not lucky enough to have Miami or Ohio State lose a game. But even if they hadn't, and we had been undefeated, I'm not so certain we'd have made it anyhow.
Auburn was the ultimate victim of this in 2004.
In 2007 we were left out on a technicality, which isn't even an official rule. Yet the powers that be came very close to granting Ohio State/Michigan "rematch" after the 06 season. And very nearly did it again after this season with the Oklahoma/Texas situation.
The Dawgs are not at fault in any way, luck just hasn't bounced our way as of yet.
What have the Dawgs missed out on?
Luck. That's all the BCS comes down to.
Missing? The ability to "close" or as I like to call it, "killer instinct". I know, I know, CMR is awesome and that's not his personality. No one defends him more than me. But hey, Michael Jordan was the best "closer" ever in his sport....and he's a "nice guy"!
There are two issues here. The first is what are we missing to win a national title, whereas the second is what are we missing to increase our respect on the national level.
Sadly, with the current system, the second greatly affects the first. If UGA has a 1 loss season the same year that Oklahoma, USC, and OSU all have 1 loss seasons as well, I'm not sure that we'd get in, even with the SEC credentials. The reason that nationally we're perceived as a regional power is I think threefold: 1)obviously the inability to beat Flordia--you're not going to get a lot of love nationally if you're consistently losing to the same team in your own division, 2) the 2006 Sugar Bowl against WVU--on a national level that game really hurt UGA's reputation more than it helps WVU's, and 3) we haven't really beaten a big-time program from another part of the country in a bowl game in a long, long time--there's only so much control we have over that, but a bowl win over OSU or Texas would turn heads.
As for what we're missing to win a national title(with the exception of better results against Flordia), I think a dominant unit on both sides of the line of scrimmage would do wonders. The 2002 OLine was terrific, and that's probably the closest we've come to a national title under Richt. LSU's lines in 2003 and 2007 were phenomenal. Ditto Florida's in 06 and 08. Even Florida's in '96 was fantastic and despite the Wuerffel love, Donnie Young was the heart of that team.
I have faith that if Searles stays, we'll have that kind of OLine, and hopefully last year was an aberration on the DLine.
Beyond that, a couple of shutdown corners that can run with Florida and LSU's receiver's wouldn't hurt wither.
KILLER INSTINCT.
/
Need to win nationally....that's it. Get some national attention. The WLOCP is a prime time game. The bowls are prime time. The OOC games are prime time.
So we can't keep losing to florida.
We can't get abused for the first 5 minutes against WVU in the Sugar Bowl. We can't afford a season opening loss to OSU this year.
Can't beat UF. Coaches are not psycho/sociopathic (see Meyer, U. or Saban, S.), nuts (see Miles, L.), and/or do not attract rap stars to practice(see Carroll, P.). And the gallons per GameDay of ESPN slobber isn't sufficient (All of the above). Perception is reality for the worshipers of the Worldwide Leader.
This got me thinking...another issue that comfounds me & lowers the ability of any SEC team to gain a national reputation is the limited national air time that the SEC has. All things equal with one slot per week it will always be filled with a past MNC team over another SEC team. Hopefully the new conference relationship with ESPN will enhance this issue.
luck..sure. but all it takes is winning the big games year in and year out. sure, you can lose some here and there....but you gotta win the big ones: All SEC East games. We do that...and we're there. Until we can...we're on the outside looking in. Winning the EAST, competing for the SEC, getting to the mNC game. It starts with winning the EAST--all of them.
So to be a "national college football writer", you have to have actually watched a college football game before 12 months ago, right? Because I don't see how anybody who was alive between, say, 2001 and 2007 could possibly say "UGA has to realize it's not Alabama" with a straight face. It's debatable how we stack up to UF and LSU from a program standpoint (although we're at least close)... but I'm not even sure Bama is the fourth-best SEC program over the last few years. Come on!
Actually, amendment to my last comment: Going into 2008, Alabama was probably the 5th or 6th best program in the SEC, maybe even 7th. (Auburn, Arkansas, and Tennessee being the next three above them. Only the Mississippi schools and Vandy were clearly inferior, and Kentucky probably was also.) Time will tell if that changes... but I wouldn't say it's a done deal.
DCDawg, you have got to be kidding about the National air time, right? That is the most ill-informed post I have ever seen anywhere.
The SEC is the ONLY CONFERENCE with a guaranteed national slot every week, and that is a 3.5 hour commercial on CBS.
Also, we have the primetime slots on ESPN and ESPN2 virtually ever week already.
I cannot believe that you just typed what you did. Jeez.
Winning a National Championship = RESPECT.
Saban has done it. Meyer, and Miles, too. Richt must.
Miles won a NC while losing 2 regular season games. I hardly call that a great feat.
Come on, let's go farther than all this.
We have a piss poor Sports Information Department who does nothing special to promote our team.
The repeated ramblings of Claude Felton...the best in the business fall on deaf ears with me.
He puts stats together for the media....that's about it.
I predict we win a NC in 12 years. That would put Richt here 20 years which is about the amount of time it will take him to get pissed the F off about losing to FLorida.
Claude is the best in the business.
What we're missing:
1. A winning streak in Jacksonville. You can win 10-11 games a year, but when you're saddled with the rep of being owned, it's tough to get national respect.
2. A national championship. Yes, there's luck involved. Doesn't matter. People see that sparkly Waterford in your coach's hands, and they forget everything else. I can think of no other way to explain the love Saban is getting on the strength of one decent year in Tuscaloosa.
3. A signature win against a *national* program: SEC games don't count, nor do middle-tier BCS schools. Ohio State and Texas did wonders for themselves by playing each other, and each team's season got a shot of rocket fuel when they went into the other's stadium and won. USC announced they were back by thrashing Auburn. Hell, even our bowl games have been meh -- FSU? Purdue? Sparty? The fightin' Brennans? Who gives a shit? If we whip OU in Norman, Athens or the Sugar Bowl, the effect on the national perception would be night and day.
"And if there is a five-star player in Alabama, he usually isn't going to Georgia."
What if the 5-star recruit is from Texas?
It's a silly comment, because UGA under Richt has consistently been able to pull top talent out of other states-regardless of the number of recruiting stars the player received.
*Also, Claude Felton gets praised by everyone in media he works with. And I thought he and the SID did an excellent job getting CMR on the air pronto to make his case after the end of the Pitt game in 2007.
I'm sorry, I completely disagree with your characterizations of Claude Felton.
He bends over backwards to help those of us in the press do our jobs and gets us access that is not allowed at other SEC schools such as Florida.
Georgia's SID dept. is one of the most professional and trusting departments that I've delt with in my career.
An attack defense ?
I would like to add that those piss-poor TV commercials we show during our football broadcasts do not help. They look like a high school SR. project.
It is a joke that we have so many world-class marketing firms in Atlanta, and have the 1980's-style commercials showing during national TV broadcasts.
Every time those two Rhodes Scholars pop up during a came, I am filled with a bit of pride and a lot of embarrassment.
The "Go-Gator" and "War Eagle" commercials are nice, professionally done promos that look like the representation of a multi-million dollar organization.
Ours are a joke.
I am sure that Claude Felton is not responsible for these, but whoever is needs to fix it. And while they are at it, they should fix that po-dunk georgiadogs website. What a hind-teet piece of junk that thing is.
This is quickly turning into an "airing of the grievances" post. Someone go grab the festivus pole.
Perception often lags well behind reality in these sorts of things.
The fact is that LSU and UF (2x) have won the BCS title. Finishing in the top 10 more is nice, but meaningless these days.
Beat UF and the perception will change. Lose to UF and expect a bowl game in FL each winter.
Off the top of my mind, without looking at stats, I think a big factor is UGA's repeated ability to get blown out in games (often to teams that appear weaker than us). USC may lose, but they never get blown out. Florida seldom gets blown out. Aside from BCSCGs, tOSU and OU don't get blown out.
Teams that win MNC are always in the game. That's why Florida was able to lose to Ole Miss and still play for a MNC.
I think another thing is as what others said- until we get from under Florida, we will have a problem.
The FU game is our monkey. PERIOD. I'll contend if we had won it HALF the time under Richt's tenure, we would have at least TWO MNC's under our belt since we hired CMR. Win the game, at least half the time, or continue playing 2nd fiddle.
"The fact is that LSU and UF (2x) have won the BCS title. Finishing in the top 10 more is nice, but meaningless these days.
Beat UF and the perception will change."
Interesting how LSU all of a sudden got dropped, seeing how as of now, Richt *owns* the Yeaux.
First thing is that UGA has to beat UF consistently.
Secondly, the reason that UF, LSU, Bama are getting so much more national exposure are that they were big time programs that had abrupt coaching changes. This threw their programs into the national spotlight, even more than what they were. Building hype around the programs when it didn't deserve it, except for LSU at the time.
Tebow could get a hang nail on his non-throwing hand and it would get 10 times the attention that all of UGA's injuries combined this past year.
I agree with the two posters who say we lack killer instinct. When we have teams on the ropes we do not put the hammer down.
Football is a mental sport. When we have the opportunity we must overwhelm teams and take away all hope - not let them hang around and regroup.
If we put 60-70 on the Tennessee Techs of the world, so damn be it.
My thoughts? Said "national columnist" is an embarrassment to his employer. I hope that guy doesn't have a vote in the AP. Sadly, he probably has at one time or another.
UGA's 2002 (13-1) season is no worse than LSU's 2003 (13-1) and 2007 (12-2) seasons, nor is it worse than Florida's 2006 (13-1) and 2008 (13-1) seasons.
What's missing? A 2002 VT upset over Miami which would've been far less of an upset than UCLA's defeat of USC in 2006 that got Florida into the title game.
Said national columnist's opinion reveals that he's unqualified to speak on the matter.
wish writers would actually do some research before writing!
We don't get the national attention because we haven't won a national title since 1980. Additionally, our big bowl victories lately (the two Sugar Bowls) weren't exactly ESPN Classic-worthy games against outstanding opponents. Hawaii was a clearly overmatched team and FSU was a what? 8-4 conference champ?
People in California, Texas, Wisconsin, Ohio, whereever aren't going to remember us going 13-1 in 2002. If we had gone 13-1 and won the MNC, well then that's a different story.
Frankly I could care less about how we're regarded nationally because IMO until we win the big one we won't be mentioned in the same breath with Florida, LSU, USC, Texas, etc, and we don't deserve to be. Doesn't bother me one bit.
Again, with the LSU. Hee, hee, hee.
Call me when the Tigeaux get within 14 points of us.
I was going to add something here, but I think everyone's pretty much said it all about where we're at nationally. I'll add that our recent OOC opponents haven't helped us out. Had the Sun Devils managed to beat UNLV the week before playing us, then we would have carried a little bit more prestige out of that game - but it ultimately would have been squandered the next week.
The idea that we're not on par with Alabama or LSU is pretty laughable considering our recent records against those two teams. We're 3-1 versus Bama and 3-2, I think, versus LSU over the same period. But most of the commentariat addressed that already. Both of those teams are getting publicity over us because of LSU's national titles.
The main reason, again pointed out repeatedly, we're not getting national publicity on par with Texas/USC/et. al. is Florida.
So it's not so much that something is missing, as it's something negative is present: 2-6 in Jacksonville.
Does the national media have a double standard when it comes to UGA? We always have something missing according to them and are not an elite program, but they consider a 10 win season disapointing. I don't understand it.
Well, we will see how they feel after this season. I think we will surprise all the people who are looking down on UGA atm. They are all so mad b/c we didn't live up to their pre-season #1 rankings, but that's fine. I think we have a good chance to catch Fla sleeping this year. With that cupcake schedule they will be beating almost everyone by 14pts...with a later season game they could easily be set into cruise control by time Nov. rolls around. Just in time for some pissed off dawgs to roll into town.
There is definitely a problem with UF.
This concept of killer instinct and UGA's apparent lack of it should not be something we should see as a surprise.
When BVG left the comments about CWM's lack of killer instinct occur every year. And yet we don't want to get rid of him. Don't fire CWM because he really does a pretty good job.
But... is that really what we want? Are we willing to except above average and still have the gall to complain about not getting a MNC? We say the media has parody but can we not see that we have the same hypocritical thinking.
If we are going to be the best we have to demand the best. We want Damon Evans to be the best. We want our HC to be the best. We want our DC to be the best. We want our OC to be the best. ETC ad infinitum.
This will be the only way we get into the national spotlight and win our next MNC.
Anon 11:19: Well, they downgraded us pretty damn quick. We won our first two games and dropped to #2 in week 2 and #3 in week 3.
Killer instinct, that innate desire to step on the gas and put inferior teams away early. That requires a willingness on everyones' part...the coaches down to the trainers, to accept nothing less than total victory. That's all we miss. All it takes is an Erk for CVG on the staff to help instill this.
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