September 9, 2009
The new Personal Foul rule
This is the biggest call in college football right now because it's going to happen mostly on 2nd or 3rd and long. It's going to be the biggest and most violent hits that are flagged whether they are legal or not.
A first down for a penalty in that situation could be game changing.
Shouldn't that penalty be eligible for instant replay? At least until refs get a better feel for what is and isn't a penalty?
PWD
48 comments:
If that's a penalty, throw it high over the middle of the field every time. No safety can resist that hit. It's 15 yards every time.
The only trouble is that all of our receivers would be dead by the Vandy game.
I'm still not done steaming from that call. What blows my mind is that at least 3 refs immediately and almost simultaneously threw their flags. Was it really that apparent?! If that's now considered the correct call, someone better tell Taylor Mays and Eric Berry.
Let the pussification of college football officially begin.
Does anybody know why it was a Big 12 team of refs working that game. I thought usually it was a crew from the visiting team
Exactly. I've been saying since Saturday that it's almost impossible to make that call in real time.
Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit call.
Almost on par with the Sanks fumble.
Goddamn bullshit.
I hope we continue to hit like Mack trucks until some poor sonofabitch receiver loses his head.
I would argue that rule was put in due to the gators hit on the sooners, can't remember who, in the national title game opening drive. the gator guy spears him in his chest with his helmet on the sideline, thank you gators.
If you listen, the ref calls the penalty on #18. Thats Baccari Rambo. It looks like after the hit he signals the "throat slice". It was subtle but I think thats the real penalty.
What is sad is the fact that the official that is in charge of this play across the middle is the back judge. He does not reach for his flag until the receiver is starting to push himself off the ground in obvious reaction to the other three flags being thrown. What are the other refs who did not have the angle that he had, supposed to be watching? The apparent make up call on Ok. State on the next UGA possession spelled it all out for me. They knew they screwed it up.
They got the number wrong, Andrew. The call was clearly against the hit on the receiver and the ref stated that during the explanation. Rambo was making the incomplete sign.
It is clear that those referees weree itching to make that call, and probably would have called it on a far less vicious hit if given the opportunity. The entire crew should all be suspended. Terrible.
While this was a very winnable game, I bet if we looked at those flags, they would be embroidered with "TBP."
Wheeling (96) getting cut blocked in the background. Nice. Check out the slo-mo at the 45 second mark. No flag on that?
The call was horrible. However, if we don't block in the back we have a punt return to the one. Chances are we then tie it up at 17. Instead, we do have the block in the back...two plays later we fumble...then comes this call on the ensuing drive. It all started with the block in the back.
Excellent point about the situations we are going to see these calls.
Who knew last year's secondary was ahead of the times?
The real problem here is that the NCAA picks and chooses certain penalties to "emphasize" every now and then.
The main problem with that is that every penalty should always be emphasized, equally. When you send out a meme to your refs that they should watch for one particular thing, they're going to throw the flag if it's anywhere close. The same thing has happened recently in the NFL with QB protection rules.
It was an atrocious call, but it wasn't because the refs had it out for us in particular.
That was a clean and legal hit in my eyes. THe WR still had his hands on the ball and was trying to pull it in before he saw the hit coming and dropped it like a scared little girl. You get your hands on a ball you try to pull it in, don't ball up if your about to get hit.
To me that is no different than a regular tackle with a wr running and the defensive player doing the exact same thing.
The thing that chaps my a$$ is earlier our FB gets nearly the same hit and they pick up the flag.
WTF. At the time I told my wife it was a good no call. Then this crap happens. I lost my mind
Another commenter on DawgSports left this:
NCAA Rules and Regulations
PROTECTION OF DEFENSELESS PLAYERS—The 2008 committee
introduced a separate rule prohibiting initiating contact with and targeting a
defenseless opponent (Rule 9-1-3).
The following are situations in which defenseless players are susceptible to
serious injury:
• The quarterback moving down the line of scrimmage who has handed or
pitched the ball to a teammate, and then makes no attempt to participate
further in the play;
• The kicker who is in the act of kicking the ball, or who has not had a
reasonable length of time to regain his balance after the kick;
• The passer who is in the act of throwing the ball, or who has not had a
reasonable length of time to participate in the play again after releasing the
ball;
• The pass receiver whose concentration is on the ball;
• The pass receiver who has clearly relaxed when the pass is no longer
catchable;
• The kick receiver whose attention is on the downward flight of the ball;
• The kick receiver who has just touched the ball;
• The player who has relaxed once the ball has become dead; and
• The player who is obviously out of the play.
These players are protected by rules that have been in place for many years. It
is of the utmost importance that participants, coaches and game officials carefully
and diligently observe safety rules.
I don't have any idea how you distinguish a "defenseless" player from a player who got tackled.
The refs in the game could obviously not tell either, based on the way the game was called. But...according this BS rule...they called it right. According to the rule.
All of you are idiots.
1) You can't use a replay to determine whether or not this is a penalty. For the lawyers out there, its a debate of a question of fact v. a question of law.
A RB's knee hitting the ground is a fact. A WR trapping the ball is a fact. Someone running out of bounds or throwing the ball in front of the line of scrimmage is a fact.
Here, the hit is the fact, but the hit is not in dispute. What is in dispute is the application of the rule to the fact (question of law). In other words, it's a judgment call, like pass interference. Not reviewable.
2) "However, if we don't block in the back we have a punt return to the one."
No genius, if we don't block in the back we return the ball about 5 yards. It was the block in the back that sprung that return. If the refs don't call the blatant block in the back, THEN we have a return to the one.
3) Good god, stop whining. We lost. Are any of you really that surprised that the home team got a couple of breaks with the refs? If our team wasn't horrible we wouldn't be in the position where a single call ruins our season. Maybe next time we can score more than 10 points. Maybe next time we can find coaches who know what they are doing.
All of you are the very same fans who give us our reputation for whining at everything. Grow a pair. And don't find something else to whine about when we lose on saturday cause I'm sick of it.
Anon 11:02,
You can make your points without being an asshole or using fallacious comments.
As an OSU fan, I feel like that call was definitely questionable. Is it getting to a point where we need flags on the players' hips just like little league? Your safety clearly leveled (legally) our receiver and if the roles had been reversed I would've been shouting for joy to have seen that hit. If I were as upset as you, then I would look up Quinton Moore on YouTube. He was a former OSU safety that had an almost identical hit 5 years ago on an Arkansas State receiver. And I mean almost identical. It was at home, no call, and listen to our fans find no fault with it.
With that being said, we won. That call didn't decide the game. Our defense didn't allow consistency with your offense and our offense played just well enough to win. Two years ago you whipped our butts and real OSU fans made no excuse for it. UGA was the better team that day. The same is true for this year.
I was at the game and your fans kicked ass. Classy, fun, and knowledgeable. I hung out with them all day and night and I will soon visit Athens because your fans well represented what Georgia football stands for. Your tradition is something that I hope OSU fans will adopt if we continue to win.
Good luck to you in the superior SEC and kick the hell out of Florida, Tennessee (repeatedly overrated), and everyone else you play. I really do hope that your program continues to have success.
What was he supposed to do? It seems as if the rules would have the DB wait around for the WR to make the catch or give up concentrating on the ball before he can make contact.
Anon 11:02,
Applying 1L CivPro to football doesn't make you clever. It makes you a douche.
I understand the point of this penalty when it is called correctly but, I bet to many times this season this will be called incorrectly and change the outcome of the game. The most violent hits will always be called a penalty now.
When you watch the replay he touched the ball which makes him eligible top be hit. Clearly we hit him with our shoulder and not the helmet or anything else like that.
In watching the clip a few more times, I think that what is going to make the call is whenever a player uses his forearm near the head.
I suspect that if Jones had wrapped him up there would not have been a penalty. (I have never been a big fan of players going for a big hit--every now and then the player misses and a big play follows the other way.)
It looks a little more like Jones gets closer to the head (jaw) than I originally thought. It is hard to tell however.
Good thing Greg BLue and Thomas Davis arent in collge anymore
Political correctness is what it is. There are no real men anymore. Especially the decision makers. All these suited guys in their boardrooms making these girly decisions can kiss my ass. Or better yet, bring em over here so I can kick their ass. They'd wish they were hit by a Georgia safety when I got through with em.
Anon 11:30. Watch it again. The player blocked in the back had already run past Miller when he was blocked in the back. The penalty had no impact on the play (even Richt has noted as much), which makes it all the more frustrating.
In addition to what Blawger says above Anon at 11:30, there is a fact based question in the call. Does the tackler lead with their helmet, or their shoulder? That is a question of fact that can be MUCH more easily seen through replay than live action. As I said after the game, that is a very difficult call live action. Give me replay, slow it down, watch a couple different angles, and the hit looks good. But watch it live, and Reshad ducks his head looking like a possible illegal shot. But replay, the facts you think you see live action--dropping the head for possible helmet to helmet contact, are not evident in replay.
So nice try, but you sir, are wrong.
Also, rbubp, reading that rule as written seems to make a LOT of hits illegal that were formerly just breaking up passes over the middle. Just saying is all, shouldn't this apply to most recievers that gets a pass thrown their way--"The pass receiver whose concentration is on the ball"?
"Anon 11:30. Watch it again. The player blocked in the back had already run past Miller when he was blocked in the back. The penalty had no impact on the play (even Richt has noted as much), which makes it all the more frustrating."
And on the first long return that got called back there was no foul.
That call as absolute horse manure!
I'll call Gilbert & Montlick.
That aside, the stupidity of the rule is that neither Reshad nor the WR were in physical danger by the forearm to the chest. The Rosegreen hit on Reggie was disgusting. But Junior clearly earholed Reggie with his own helmet. Dangerous for both.
I think this sucks for CFB. As stated above, hopefully our safeties will be able to level the same hit but with arms open and not get a penalty
MyckieSee:
As for the "no real men", I think this comes from the NCAA competition committee. A group that includes coaches.
I have no doubt part of this is out of fear of a player ending up paralyzed.
It was a bad call, no doubt and I bet by the end of the season the same play would not be called a foul. A problem is going to be that this falls into a judgment area. Not sure a replay would have changed things.
Any truth to the rumors that Cox has nerve damage in his arm and Logan gray is now the starting QB? Kind of random, but I have heard from several folks on campus this morning.
@ Andrew -- Me too.
my buddy just confirmed that-- apparently it's a rumor on rivals
Hearing the same thing... PWD what's the word?
Cox out. damn
Logan worked all Wednesday with the #1 team. I can't imagine Cox starting at this point. I guess we'll find out this Saturday if it was stupid blind loyalty or lack of options that kept Cox on the field every single snap.
As IRATE as that called made me, I can't chalk the loss up to just that. We scored 10 points for god sakes.
MY QUESTION - Has anyone heard from the Big 12 or NCAA or whomever would release such a statement, that the call was incorrect? Or is that the way its gonna be called from now on?
The hilarious part in all of this, is that if Rashad just wrapped people up like normal safeties did... this wouldn't have even been an issue. We all know that Rashad is a moron and loves the big hit (see Tech last year...). It all comes down to discipline in the secondary (or a lack thereof).
People saying, "this didn't influence" the outcome are wrong. Any little play can influence the outcome. Giving them the ball on our 10 yard line, when it was about to be punted is a BIG deal. I am not saying this is THE determining factor, but it certainly INFLUENCED the game.
Wouldn't it have been great if our offense had played well enough to make the flag on this play moot?
OKAY ...you probably wont believe this..i dont care..I reff Div.II in the North Carolina area....the reason he was called was because he "launched"...he left his feet...read some ncaa role books then we can talk....til then...Bitch all you want....you all sound like fools..
oh yea....Go Gators....
Yeah, imagine that. A "ref", a true professional, goes by "boogers", calls us fools and ends with "go gators."
Pot, meet kettle.
Another idiotic Gator fan with an appropriate handle..."Boogers." I don't care that you "reff" (sic) for Sister Margaret's Developmentally Challenged Girl's Club Flag Football League in Hogwash, North Carolina. The call was clearly blown. It was a legal hit to the shoulders, and Reshad did not lead with the top of his head (aka spearing). I'll remember the rule about "launching" the next time a WR gets hung out to dry and a Gator safety "launches" to try and break up a pass. I'm guessing you won't think it should be called then. Bottom line, its a legal hit a terrible call. Have fun this weekend and wear your sunscreen at that game you are reffing in the dirt lot behind the orphanage.
It's football. It's supposed to be a man's sport. There will be big hits. Deal with it. What's next? All games must be played on a giant moonwalk while the players are in giant bubbles? Ahhh.
The only idiots in here are the douchebags pretending to be internet lawyers who are smarter than the rest of the college football world. You should tell your bosses at McDonald's to promote you to the legal branch where you can debate on the many ways in which "CAUTION: HOT" can be interpreted.
How did 4 or 5 refs throw flags on this and they still didn't get the number right on the call?
They called the penalty on Bacarri Rambo, #18.
Thumbs up their a$$es, thumbs up their a$$es. . .
We all know how much you doggies like boogers....figured it would get your attention...and it does...
LOL....I do have a game this weekend....not at your alma mater like you mentioned..what was that Sister Margarets something or other?..they must be so proud of you...
So your telling me that all those reffs got that call wrong? Was that four flags?? yea...one flag perhaps...but not four...
I love reading your whinny cry-baby postings here...cant wait to see what you have to after TWLOCP...
Oh by the way...way to represent the sec yet again.....perhaps you should join the ACC..think you would fit in better with the likes of Duke, NCstate, etc...
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