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December 1, 2009

Bowl Chaos Update

SEC and ACC Bowls are getting progressively more nuts and unpredictable by the minute. Here's the latest:
  • LSU to the Capital One - This is still pretty much a go.
  • Auburn to Outback Bowl - The Outback Bowl may officially announce this afternoon that Auburn is invited to the Tampa bowl. Tennessee media outlets agree that AU is likely to get that invite instead of the Vols.
  • FSU to the Gator Bowl - The Gator gets the second pick of ACC teams, and the Tallahassee Democrat says the Gator will select FSU vs. West Virginia for Bowden's final game if/when the retirement is finalized. The Gator also selected UGA for Dooley's last game.
  • Virginia Tech to the Chick-Fil-A - The Chick-Fil-A Bowl should update their blog later today with their latest leanings, but 9-3 Va Tech looks like a distinct possibility. If the Chick-Fil-A takes VT, the loser of the ACC Title game could fall all the way to the Champ Sports Bowl. Update Per the Tallahassee Democrat:
    According to the Gator Bowl's contract with the ACC, the team only has to invite the ACC title game loser once in four years, which it did with Georgia Tech in 2007. Without speculating on the matchup, Gator Bowl general chairman Dan Murphy told the Times-Union late Monday that it's the GBA's interpretation of the contract that the league's one-loss rule (a team cannot be passed for consideration by an ACC bowl partner for a team more than one loss behind in the conference standings) does not apply if the Gator Bowl decides not to invite the championship game loser. (emphasis added)
    Georgia Tech attended the Chick-fil-A last year. Va Tech would be making their third trip to Atlanta in one season, and Clemson would be riding a two game losing streak at 8-5. All three ACC teams have hair on them.
  • UGA or UT in the Chick-Fil-A - The best thing for all bowl partners would be UGA in the Chick-Fil-A and UT in the Music City. That would sell the greatest number of total bowl tickets. However, UT vs. VT is an incredibly compelling regional game as is Georgia vs. Clemson, or Georgia Tech vs. Tennessee. The Atlanta Sports Council has a tough call on their hands.
  • UGA, UT or SC in the Music City? - The Nashville Bowl has a variety of incredibly compelling potential games as South Carolina, Tennessee or Georgia would all offer a great game against North Carolina in the Music City Bowl.
  • UGA to the Independence Bowl? - If UT goes to the Chick-Fil-A and SC faces UNC in the Music City, Georgia could fall all the way to the Independence Bowl. We are hearing that this is still a scenario that is very much on the table. The Liberty Bowl isn't in play as that bowl will not pass on Arkansas. Texas A&M is a strong candidate for the opponent in Shreveport.
PWD

103 comments:

Anonymous said...

ACC loser can't fall more than the Gator.

Paul Westerdawg said...

Anon 1:24:

Read the Tally article that is linked above. The gator bowl doesn't agree with you on that one.

Anonymous said...

Way off on the ACC related stuff. Chik-fil-a must take a team within one win of the best available conference record, or two wins if that team is ranked 5 spots higher in the BCS.

That means if GT loses, they could only be passed by VT (one win) or maybe Miami (2 wins but might be ranked more than 5 spots ahead of GT if GT is 21+).

Gator bowl must pick best available record, or team within one win of that record (unless the team within one win is the ACC runner up, which can't be the case). If GT wins this could be Clemson, BC, VT, or Miami. It CANNOT be FSU, because they are 4-4 in conference.

If Clemson wins the ACC, the Gator bowl is even more limited. It would have to go with GT (if not peach) or VT (if not Peach). Basically, if the Chik doesn't pick Miami, the Gator bowl is forced to pick whichever of GT and VT the Chik doesn't pick.

Once you get down to Champs its wide open again, with Miami, BC, or FSU.

Gator bowl can't invite FSU right now, because it might not be able to when all things shake out.

Anonymous said...

Gator bowl is interpreting the rule wrong...

After the Chick-fi l-A Bowl has chosen, then the Konica Minolta Gator Bowl has the next selection. If the Gator Bowl does not choose the ACC team available with the best conference record, then it must choose a team within one win in the conference record. If THAT team [i.e., the team within one win in the conference record, not a team with the best record as Gator bowl is reading it], though, is the runner-up in the ACC Football Championship Game (FCG), then the Gator Bowl may pass to make another selection within one victory.

Anonymous said...

"The best thing for all bowl partners would be UGA in the Chick-Fil-A and UT in the Music City."

You are also ignoring the fact that the bowl partners get a share of the hotel/tourist revenue. UT is a much more attractive option because a greater percentage of their fans will have to stay in downtown/midtown and a greater percentage will do touristy things (aquarium, world of coke, etc.) Comes out to about 2-4 million when all is said and done. If you don't believe me, there were many articles published on the topic last year re GT in the peach bowl. Same reasoning will hold true, although not entirely to the same extent.

Paul Westerdawg said...

Anons,

Which of you guys are attorneys for the Gator Bowl looking at the Gator Bowl's contract with the ACC?

Just curious on that one.

Not saying the GBA guys are wrong. Just seems pretty interesting that you guys are more knowledgeable about this than the Gator Bowl Association.


PWD

Anonymous said...

I'm an attorney. I'm damn sure I'm a better attorney than any assclown the Gator Bowl hires.

I'm also pretty damn sure you can judge a contract by its plain meaning.

The meaning here is clear and is best explained through a hypothetical. The Gator Bowl's argument is they can pick 4-4 FSU over 7-1 GT or 6-2 Clemson. Both of those teams (GT and Clemson) would at least tie for the best conference record (because its measured in terms of victories).

The Gator Bowl can then either choose the ACC team available with the best conference record (GT or Clemson/VT), or a team within one win in the conference record (BC/Miami).

Here's where the Gator Bowl is retarded. If they read THAT team to mean the team with the best record, then it makes the language in the contract superfluous. In other words, if Clemson lost, then Clemson would be THAT team, and the "Gator Bowl may pass to make another selection within one victory." That's the same damn thing it could already do - pick a team within a victory of Clemson.

Conversely, looking at it the Correct way, assume that, like last year, GT and VT were tied atop whatever division they were in at 7-1 and Clemson is 6-2. Clemson loses to VT in the championship game. The Gator Bowl could choose GT or Clemson, a team within a victory of GT. Because THAT team (Clemson) is the runner up, "then the Gator Bowl may pass to make another selection within one victory [of Clemson]." Under that reading the contract makes sense, and the Gator Bowl would be allowed to pick from any 5-3 team.

Anonymous said...

...in other words, the ACC champ. loser can't fall more than the Gator.

Anonymous said...

... NO. The ACC champ loser can fall further if it is Clemson. Clemson is 6-2. Both Miami and BC are within one win of Clemson. Miami can go to the Gator over Clemson and BC can go to the Gator over Clemson.

Bryan Carver Dawg97 said...

I wouldn't mind falling to the Independence if it meant playing Oklahoma. But not AM

Anonymous said...

Okay Gator Bowl Commentators, let me clear up something for everyone.

The Gator Bowl can choose WHOMEVER they please! The only recourse available to the ACC for a violation of the contract's stipulations would be to terminate the contract; too bad, but the contract is running out anyway. Personally, I think the Gator Bowl has the correct interpretation, but even if they don't, it's not like they're shaking in their boots at the thought of going up against the ACC.

Anonymous said...

Gotta love the BCS!

Anonymous said...

Conference tie ins for bowls suck.

As do most of the people anonymously arguing contract law on a blog.

Anonymous said...

What is the law if not something to argue about?

HellisOrange said...

AMEN anon 2:32. Who gives a rat's a**. I am tired of playing the same conferences every year in a bowl.

SCdawg said...

unrelated but
Logan is moving to receiver and we reoffered Devin Burns as a QB. saw it on UGAsports. sounds good to me!

Anonymous said...

Anon @ 2:26.

Or there is thing called an INJUNCTION that can keep the damn bowl from being played.

Practically, the two would work it out. If its worth that much more money to the gator to have FSU, they'll pay for it.

MaconDawg said...

How many Elite 11 QB's are we gonna turn into receivers? First A.J. Bryant then Logan.

gruden said...

Imma let ya'll finish but Bobby bowden annouced his retirement a couple minutes ago, said he would coach the team in its bowl game and requested that the bowl is one that is played in fla.. I.e. The gator bowl jusss saying

KingDawg said...

Hope Burns is better than he looked last year against Cairo. Didn't see him this year. The JR RB at Carver is a must get if such a thing exists.

reipar said...

Plain meaning of a contract? Take a look at the million dollar comma case and see if you still feel the same way about the term "plain meaning".

The only thing funnier than the thought of a court actually deciding the contract meaning is obvious is the thought of a court injunction being filed to prevent the bowl game from going on. The only likely way for that relief to be granted is if the parties cannot be made whole monetarily. While the argument could be made in this case it is an uphill one in any case and especially so given the likley venue for the action.

reipar

jacktio said...

@ MaconDawg

2

Largemouth Dawg said...

I believe everyone is missing the point. The key phrase in this post is "If the Chick-Fil-A takes VT, the loser of the ACC Title game could fall all the way to the Champ Sports Bowl." Beating Tech was sweet, and seeing their dreams of the Orange Bowl turn into a trip to Orlando on the 28th would be icing on the cake, and further proof that God is in fact a Bulldog.

Understand that it probably won't happen, but a guy can dream...

KingDawg said...

Reipar,

So you've read the venue provision of the contract.

Wow, alot of wannabe lawyers interpreting this contract without actually seeing the whole contract.

I'll interpret the contract once the ACC or the Gator Bowl puts me on retainer. No need in giving half-cocked legal advice for free.

Anonymous said...

UT to the Chik-fil-a per ESPN per some news peeps in Tenn.

reipar said...

KingDawg,

Not sure if you are referring to a choice of law provision, or a choice of forum provision? I would assume both are likely in the K (and would be their own little issues to be litigated over - you do not even want to know what happens if there is also an arb provision), but no I have not read the contract at all.

I assumed from my generic comments regarding the matter it was clear I had not read the K. When I speak of "venue" I am referring to the likley court this action seeking an injuction would be filed in. While the terms venue and forum have virtually the same meaning you almost always see forum used in contracts and venue used to describe the specific court an action will/is brought in.

The likely reason for this (if you care at all, which most I am sure do not as their eyes are either in the glazing or tearing stage if they are still reading this) is you can apply the laws of one forum in another venue (ie. you could have lit in NYSD Fed ct (venue), but the ct could actually apply the good ole tort laws of GA (forum) to the case). Of course there are a whole bunch of jurisdictional issues that make it more complicated than my simple example, but I am sure you get the basic idea.

The original point I was trying to make is if (and I believe that is a huge "IF") the bowl actually went down this path the likelihood that the contract issue is a simple one is just not very realistic and the idea of an injunction even more so IMHO.

I am also fairly certain nothing in my post could be construed as giving legal advice as I failed to actually advise anyone on any action to take or refrain from taking. Although it is nice to think the Gator Bowl or one of their agent's is reading this blog.

reipar

Ubiquitous GA Alum said...

Link for UT to Chicken bowl ...

http://www.govolsxtra.com/news/2009/dec/01/source-ut-vs-virginia-tech-chick-fil--bowl/

Imagine this means Music City for us. Matchup against MIA or UNC.

Anonymous said...

UT vs UK in peach

Anonymous said...

i meant vt

Anonymous said...

reipar = 1L

Paul said...

Looks like we're heading to the "papajohns.com" bowl against South Florida

gruden said...

where r u hearing that paul?

Anonymous said...

Buck Belue is reporting Shreveport and A&M. Hmmm, that tough OOC schedule doesn't look like it helped much did it?

Buck is not the most reliable source, but it sounds like UK going to Nashville again.

Jameson said...

Well isn't this a kick in the ass.

The high I was on from being Tech just came crashing down.

I can't believe the Outback Bowl picked Auburn.

:(

Jameson said...

*beating

Anonymous said...

this is one of the swifter kicks to the nuts i've felt in some time, if its true.

SCdawg said...

rivals says dawgs are in independence bowl probably against texas a&m, oklahoma, or missouri.

Sam (my actual name) said...

How about just waiting to see what falls out? It is only a few more days until all is resolved.

Sheesh.

JackSpratDawg said...

All these lawyers slagging each other over the Gator Bowl are overlooking the fact that if the national media and the Gators sponsor want to match up the old man and WVU then it will happen. Money talks.....

As far as UGA goes, a matchup with Clemson in the Peach would be best, followed by perhaps UNC in Nashville, but the cards may not fall that way for us......

Anonymous said...

wow UGA to Papajohns per AJC.

Anonymous said...

Source Anon 613?

Anonymous said...

I am looking at the AJC right now and see nothing about UGA and the Birmingham Bowl. It might be right, but it is not in the AJC at this moment. CBS is predicting UGA and South Florida in Birmingham though.

Anonymous said...

This is what I have read on Rivals and they are predicting & some are confirmed already:

Auburn - Outback
LSU - Capital One
Ole Miss - Cotton
Auburn - Outback
UT - Peach
UK - Music city
Arkansas - Liberty
UGA - Independence
USC - Papajohns

JasonC said...

Rivals say Independence bowl for UGA.

Kevin said...

They can kiss my hairy dog if they think I am taking two days off work and paying to go to Shreveport to watch a bowl game on the Monday after Xmas. If this is it then Damon Evans should be embarassed.

Anonymous said...

Funny. Georgia and South Carolina play by FAR the toughest OOC schedules of any of these 7-5 teams and they wind up with the worst two bowls. Maybe we should play the sort of schedule the Gators do. ;)

Anonymous said...

Anon 4:52:
Well-done. (Likely true.)

Anonymous said...

Playing USF in Birmingham would be complete horseshit. Yet another bowl game that's a lose-lose situation. You win and it was just USF. You lose and you got beat by a crap Big East team.

At least a matchup against OU in Shreveport would have some national cache -- win or lose.

JaxJay said...

Rick Catlin (Head of the Gator Bowl Assoc) was on Jax Sports Radio this morning saying they were taking FSU vs. WV for bowden's farewell

Dante said...

If scheduling Oklahoma State and Arizona State means we have to play a slightly crappier bowl in a crappy year, then I'm all for it. I'd rather play Oklahoma State, AZ State, and any of our likely bowl matchups than cupcake1, cupcake2, and Clemson or VT (our best case scenario assuming we picked up an additional win).

Anonymous said...

Dante,

I actually agree with you. I was the anon who mentioned it earlier, but I too would rather play quality regular season opponents than that garbage that Florida and most other SEC teams seem to regularly schedule.

Ubiquitous GA Alum said...

Athens Banner Herald spoke to named sources with the Independence and they affirmed that it's b/w UGA and SC ...

http://www.onlineathens.com/stories/120109/foo_530939545.shtml

Bet we sell more G-Day tickets than Independence Bowl tickets.

Paul Westerdawg said...

I don't believe we lost the outback bowl in Stillwater.
We lost it in Athens vs Kentucky.

Win that game and we are on a 4 game win streak and Tampa bound.

Anonymous said...

Indy bowl? That is shitty. Our SID doesn't do a good job at selling us do they? Our AD is a clown.

Anonymous said...

where does Oklahoma figure to go? any bowl would be fine if it is against OU.

Joe said...

Hey guys, the SEC has said that no SEC teams can be selected until sunday so there is no need to freak out right now, everything we are hearing today is purely rumor's.. when it comes to bowls dont trust anything until a official invite is given and accepted..

Anonymous said...

Sean Shapas mentioned for Heisman on NYTimes!

http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/29/heisman-polling-is-mccoy-in-the-lead/#comment-73821

80DAWG said...

WSB is reporting that they got a text from two UGA coaches saying it is the Independence. I hope this is wrong as i was hoping for ATL. I can't travel this year.

Anonymous said...

Joe, you are wrong.

Paul, the OSU game, the UK game, the LSU refs, and stupid outback folks are why we are stuck in this crap bowl.

Anonymous said...

Never thought I'd see a reference to the Erie Doctrine on a Georgia Sports Blog.

Anonymous said...

If we get the Indy, I'll hate the "venue" but I'll enjoy the "forum" (assuming we get a Big 12 team).

Somebody needs to tell PWD that Anne Dupree has taken over this thread.

Anonymous said...

Dupree don't know $hit. Usha 4 life yo!

Anonymous said...

reipar,
There are definitely some jurisdictional issues involved, but I would imagine that the Gator Bowl's contract includes a clause which stipulates which state's law would be applied. Don't have contracts until next semester, but I thought such provisions were rather common. Burger King Corp. v. Rudzewicz provides an interesting jurisdictional issue in relation to contracts.

God I hate what law school has done to my life.

Kevin said...

This fn stinks. We are screwed by Music City because KY has a big basketball game and they are closer, so they go for the 3rd time out of 4 years. I understand the logic for the Chick fil a bowl but the Music City folks screwed us.

Anonymous said...

Word is that UK is Music City bound, question is does this put UGA or UT in the Chik-fil-A?

For your perspective, you really don't want Kiffin in Atl for an extended period of time because it becomes a secondary recruiting trip for him.

We hit several of our picks from two and a half weeks ago:
http://www.secrivals.com/general-sec/articles/sec-bowl-tie-ins-2009-2010.html

Fuelk2 said...

As someone who has been out of law school for a while, can we take contract interpretation and case cites elsewhere? It's a disturbing reminder of all the idiotic conversations I used to endure. Almost as idiotic as this crock of sh!t bowl selection process that has us in a wildly humiliating bowl. Well, that and the epic bed wetting that took place in the second half of the UK game. Dammit.

todd said...

I suppose we should be grateful that the Indy wants us even when they do have another option. I know this sounds crazy. But I would've rather played in B'ham. At least its a short drive.

But after losing to Tennessee and Kentucky, we shouldn't be upset about falling so far down. Both losses were inexcusable and 2 of the worst efforts I've ever seen a UGA team give in 30 years.

David said...

Awesome...I'm so glad CMR didn't stick with Joe C. just so we could make a bowl. I mean, even if he had, we probably would have only made it to the Independence Bowl or the Music City Bowl. Now, with Gray/Murray having some experience under their belt, I'm feeling a lot better about next year.

T-Lud said...

Although I think it sucks, I can't really say Georgia "deserves" a bowl better than Shreveport. The collapse against Kentucky was just too much to overcome with a win over GT, no matter how good the Jackets are this year. And I can actually understand the thought process of the Outback officials. They would have taken Kentucky if the 'Cats had beaten the Vols, but when UT won that game, the Outback looked at the morass of 7-5 teams and narrowed it down to UT and Auburn as the best travelers. Auburn won the head-to-head against the Vols, so they get the nod. At least we can be reasonably assured that this will be Georgia's last trip to Shreveport. Not because Georgia will never again have as bad a season as this; the SEC chose not to renew its contract with the Independence.

Anonymous said...

One wonders if having the deadline for bowl ticket orders a bit earlier might have given UGA a chance to make a pitch to a better game about ticket commitments.

I'd guess that the season-long teeth-gnashing and downgrading of our team by our own fanbase probably made some of the better bowls wary of our willingness to travel. If UGA had a solid number of sold tickets to show these bowl committees, perhaps that would mitigate some of that concern. But, instead, the bowls have more or less chosen and today is the day to get your bowl orders in... so, perhaps better timing next year?

Anonymous said...

Are you debating whether Dupree or U-Rod is the second best contracts professor at UGA? I certainly don't see a defensible argument that anyone other than Coenen is the best.

Normaltown Mike said...

Yer smokin crack man.

Julian McDonnell was the shiz-nit.

-Air quoting "Bargained Contract".
-Vietnam Veteran
-Hypo's frequently involved Red Stripe Beer
-Slightly non-PC

For Christmas we took up a collection and bought him some Red Stripe.

Chris said...

You clowns are ridiculous. Birmingham or Nashville or Shreveport or Atlanta? Who cares? After the season we just had, the only value ANY of those bowls bring to our program is the extra practice time the team gets by accepting a bowl invite.

Anonymous said...

Joe Shad of ESPN reporting Willie Martinez is not being retained. Only word I have seen on it.

Anonymous said...

Willie's Fired!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

Actually it says that he is not being retained as DC. He could still be secondary coach.

Anonymous said...

Good point anon 1:11

Crane said...

Actually it says "Georgia will not retain DC Willie Martinez", meaning willie is gone..

Joe then has the following tweet.

"I am hearing that Georgia is not making any announcements regarding Willie Martinez at this time. So keep in mind, no official announcement."

so we probably still won't hear anything for awhile.

I suspect that UGA would want to keep it under wraps for while just to hold on to recruits. Also if your next DC is coaching in the SEC Championship game, you may want to wait a bit before announcing.

hoping

Joe said...

can someone provide a link, im not seeing this..

Anonymous said...

http://sports-ak.espn.go.com/ncf/index.

scroll down to follow college football on twitter

Anonymous said...

Joe (that's ironic!), if you go to ESPN's college football page and scroll down, all of their CFB reports tweets are in a box there for you to scroll.

A cocktail to Chris: it's all about the practice. And really, Auburn can play Wisconsin all they want. I'd much rather play Texas A&M than Wisconsin in a bowl for the eleventy-billionth time.

And to Crane, AT BEST DC at Bama to DC at Georgia is a lateral move regardless of the money involved. And, I would think Kirby is smart (ha) enough to compare the Saban and Richt coaching trees, then remember that when he was on staff at Georgia he got to coach running backs (even though he had spent his entire career on defense), and figure that staying put is his best bet.

Also, if Kirby was on the market to switch jobs, does anyone think our AD is going to get into a bidding war with FSU?

Crane said...

I agree it's a lateral move from dc to dc however. Saban is a defense guy. His fingers are all over it. It would make sense to move laterally from the point of view of doing it on your own.

I wouldn't mind Ellis from SC either. That would be a step up program wise.

Kirby is the splash hire though I'm not sure necesarily how realistic it is. 30% chance at best?

Crane said...

http://twitter.com/schadjoe

is the link

Anonymous said...

What about Tubberville or Croom?

Anonymous said...

Tubbs 2010!!!

Anonymous said...

Tuberville, would be GREAT!!!

WFdawg said...

The difficulty with getting Tubs and Croom, desirability aside, is that the move from HC to DC is NOT a lateral move. Not too many guys looking to take a step back in their careers.

Crane said...

If one doubts that Kirby would come because it is a lateral move, I'm not sure how one could expect a proven head coach like Tuberville would come. I wouldn't be surprised to see Tuberville as the head coach at Louisville next year.

Croom, who obviously isn't a proven head coach makes sense from a step up or step down point of view... he's a running back coach in the NFL now. The other problem is that he absolutely no experience as a Defensive Coordinator.

Crane said...

Another potential upside from Mark Richt's point of view is that Kirby has a lot of experience with the secondary meaning that IF every other defense coach could and would stay only one coach would need to be fired.

That would assume that the new DC would want to keep everyone.

Anonymous said...

What about Chuck Amato?

Joe said...

tubs said on the radio yesterday morning that he would not take the job if offered.. which surprised the heck out of me, some of the players were thinking he would be DC and LB coach while willie took a demotion back to secondary..

but anyways.. louisville's number 1 option is charlie strong per espn.

Crane said...

Hell, I'd pay Louisville to take Charlie Strong LOL.

Crane said...

Amato would make sense, not sure if I'd love the hire though.

Anonymous said...

Chatter about Willie as secondary coach brings me terrifying flashes of receivers running through wide open pastures and 15-yard cushions everywhere.

Crane said...

Per Joe Schad... Confirmed. Willie Martinez is out at Georgia.

Crane said...

Pollock is reporting 3 Defensive Coaches are leaving.

matt b. said...

Richt has fired Jancek, Fabris, and Martinez

Crane said...

Jon Fabris, Willie Martinez and LB coach Janzeik.

goalinestalker said...

All you Richt haters need to step back because He pulled the trigger! I certainly thought he would get rid of wm but not those other clowns. Props to CMR

Anonymous said...

R.I.P. Directional Kicking.

Joe said...

Good news. Now where do we go from here? hopefully richt the replacements in place within a day or so, with 3 defensive coaches being fired we are going to have to fend for our life on the recruiting trail..

we need those new coaches to convince the recruits to stay committed..

lets hope this is handled in a speedy manner..

Anonymous said...

LOL @ Chuck Amato.

Some of you have absolutely no clue.

Anonymous said...

I would figure booting the defensive coaches would bolster our recruiting on defense. Who in the hell wants to come play for a school where you were a better athlete in high school than you are when you leave college?

 
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